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"Home Theater" Speakers
- Thread starter echopraxia
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mkt
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Not really. My kid works in theater sound and has used their systems (lots of dsp too). I don’t know if they’re the best, but nobody ever got fired for choosing Meyer.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #83
More measurement plots extracted from the .gll files downloadable from Meyer Sound's website are shown below. It's a shame more manufacturers like JBL etc. do not also provide files like this for their speakers.
Meyer UPQ-D1 - Horizontal Response:
Meyer UPQ-D1 - Vertical Response:
Meyer UPQ-D1 - Directivity Index:
Meyer UPQ-D1 - Horizontal Response:
Meyer UPQ-D1 - Vertical Response:
Meyer UPQ-D1 - Directivity Index:
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I agree. I'd love to see measurements like this for Danley SH50. I'd guess that they have and use them for design internally. Which model are you most interested in? Looks like they have 3 different coverage patterns(80x50, 50x50, 80x80), all with huge max output. Have you called to ask about pricing? Curious where about these are relative to the other options and even something like the JBL M2.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #85
I'm going to contact JBL/Harman support and try to get measurements for the SRX835P, and Danley for the SH50. I'm not sure which coverage version of the Danley is best, but 50x50 seems like it would be most apples-to-apples comparable with the SRX835P and JTR Noesis 212RT.
No idea if they will respond with anything but a polite 'no', but it can't hurt to ask. It would be unfortunate if so, and their loss, since otherwise I will likely just buy the JTR 212RT (since we do have measurements and know it's excellent).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #86
@richard12511 Wow -- actually it looks like Danley provides this data too! It's just in a different format, but their website provides a viewer tool:
Using the sliders, you can view the response at any off-axis angle you want as a 3D balloon view. Not sure if I can use this tool to convert into the more familiar 2D heatmaps, but I'll try.
Using the sliders, you can view the response at any off-axis angle you want as a 3D balloon view. Not sure if I can use this tool to convert into the more familiar 2D heatmaps, but I'll try.
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I was actually talking about the Meyer options when it comes to different coverage pattern. UDP-D1(80x50), UDP-D2(50x50), UDP-D3(80x80). I believe the Danley SH50 is a set pattern(50x50).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #89
The Danley SH50 data seems to be much more sparse, and the viewer tool does not seem capable of plotting similar heatmaps. However, the horizontal response does not look so good.
For example, here is the Danley SH50 frequency response (bottom black line) for 20 degrees off-axis to the left:
Consider this in contrast to the Meyer UPQ-D2's off-axis response equivalent here indicated with the red line:
For example, here is the Danley SH50 frequency response (bottom black line) for 20 degrees off-axis to the left:
Consider this in contrast to the Meyer UPQ-D2's off-axis response equivalent here indicated with the red line:
TimW
Major Contributor
They're DIY but you might find the home theater speaker designs from DIY Sound Group interesting. They use a well designed waveguide with pro audio woofers and compression drivers. They have posted some measurements here but I have been hoping to see Amir measure them as well. The HTM-12 was designed for on wall or baffle mounting whereas the newer HT-8 and HT-10 have more baffle step correction for placement away from the wall. When you consider the price of the kits you could probably pay someone to assemble and finish them nicely for less than the cost of some PA speakers.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #91
Using the "EASE GLLViewer" software, I was able to edit the graph visualization settings (line colors, etc.) of the Meyer UPQ-D2 data to fairly closely match the view from the JTR Noesis 212RT measurements from here for a fairly apples-to-apples comparison:
Meyer UPQ-D2 (normalized) horizontal off-axis (+right) frequency response:
JTR Noesis 212RT (not normalized!) horizontal off-axis (+right) frequency response:
To me, the JTR looks better, but the Meyer isn't bad either.
Meyer UPQ-D2 (normalized) horizontal off-axis (+right) frequency response:
JTR Noesis 212RT (not normalized!) horizontal off-axis (+right) frequency response:
To me, the JTR looks better, but the Meyer isn't bad either.
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The Danleys are likely designed for narrower dispersion.
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Those look pretty good. Almost makes me want to build a pair to compare to my JTRs.
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Wow, this is awesome. Thanks for doing this. More of this kind of data we can see, the better(so keep em coming
). JTR does look a little more consistent, though not a huge difference. Overall dispersion width seems pretty close, and both are very narrow compared to more traditional hifi speakers. Usually, to get an idea of the directivity I like to put the graphs side by side(scaled) and look at the general "area" of the off axis triangles(more area = more narrow dispersion). Meyer seems to have 6dB more output.Long post ..
Back to the thread ...
Hi
It is true that that the goals of PA are not often the same. Yet, some PA systems are high fidelity and some audiophile systems, that include seriously expensive ones, are craps by most metrics. One issue is that very SPL one: The ability to play something that should be loud... in a simulacrum of loud, not a polite fart. I am reminded of a session back a few years, at an audiophile meet where the owner had just acquired a pair of violently expensive, German single-driver speakers, driven by a similarly dear SET amplifier. One attendee brought the superbly well-produced Dire Straits album "Brother in Arms" … everyone, present, had to agree that this system could not do it any justice... Let's be polite and say that the midrange... Oooooh the midrange! was good ... the treble was not very much there and the bass from the mid (>200Hz) to low did take a vacation on any record played ... Your basic SET + single-driver sound ...
All this to get back to the spirit of the thread. Someone suggested the JBL 4722 and those, properly DSP'ed could be the ticket if one has the room. I am sure the OP was asking for alternatives to such large (ugly?) cabinets and so do I.
A brand which is not well known by many Home audiophile but revered by the Pros, is Danley Sound Labs. The man behind the company is an inventor, an extremely knowledgeable, yet modest, individual, who has produced some spectacular designs; among these a subwoofer driver based on a hard-drive motor ( can't remember the name of the product) that was used to simulate elephants low frequency (<20Hz) communications ... He has a range of (PA) speakers that seem to be the real deal when it comes to fidelity. Among these, one of the few speakers purported to reproduce a square wave rather well: The Synergy Horn SH50. Also Danley Labs produce some devastatingly loud subwoofers, the DTS, tapered Horn series subwoofers in enclosures that could be shoehorned in some HT.. The TH go low, clean and loud, the DTS20 for exemple, which has a home sub price. Around or <$3000, is capable of 120 dB at 30 Hz in a “manageable” (87.5 x 18 x 20 inches) box and less has an “operating range” of 18 to 100 Hz plus or minus 3 dB and can 128 dB Peak within that range !!! The Synergy Horn SH50 are not cheap either at > $5000 each but …
I am certain among the confusing but large catalog of JBL, there are PA models that could anchor a High-Fidelity HT system at more modest prices. There again JBL fails itself and the consumers by an opaque, confusing, branding and distribution strategy, one can only dream that Samsung with its wherewithal could bring some order to that chaos, So far? Not exactly.
There are other brands that produce some interesting designs, Yorkville for exemple produce its own version of the Synergy under Danley's patent. I'd like to see measurements of those ... The search continues. I am all ears
If we are talking top of the line, PA speakers maybe it is worth looking into L-acoustics? It is used at some of the largest events in the world and they are now dipping their toes into home installs as nobody is buying in the pro world currently (well maybe some, but very little).
https://www.l-acoustics.com/en/
https://estore.l-acoustics.com
They are also doing some excellent work with object based, surround sound. Which scales from home to arenas (and actually works amazingly well in arenas).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #98
That sure looks good to me! Though, I can't answer your question about gating since I don't know enough about measurements beyond the REW basics here (hopefully someone else can).
We'd also love to hear some of your subjective impressions vs the other speakers you mentioned, like the JTR's and JBL M2's! No need for anything super scientific, just really curious if any obvious differences stand out when listening to them
@echopraxia After reading this entire thread, you seem to be in the same boat as I am. I have a dedicated stereo room and a dedicated home theater, but quality speakers never excited me in my home theater (I never had Salons, but I did have PSB Platinums, Totems, Paradigm Studio's), and while they were all great MUSIC speakers, they were always missing something for movies. You mentioned it a few times already - dynamic range. Basically I wasn't blown away by gunshots, glass breaking and other non-subwoofer sounds that I expected to be very loud.
I finally took a leap of faith and picked up JBL 3677's (now discountinued and replaced by the 3678's) and have been extremely happy ever since. There are definitely better JBL's, but limited by budget I went with the 3677's.
I think a lot of the speakers mentioned in this thread would put a grin on your face, just as long as they are big and have SPL in the 95+ range.
I finally took a leap of faith and picked up JBL 3677's (now discountinued and replaced by the 3678's) and have been extremely happy ever since. There are definitely better JBL's, but limited by budget I went with the 3677's.
I think a lot of the speakers mentioned in this thread would put a grin on your face, just as long as they are big and have SPL in the 95+ range.
So in other words, stay away from Bookshelf speakers for LCR?
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