Cool with 19 i did some horn/reflex loadet 12inches. Very efficient. But that 40Hz are the interesting part. Thats why iam interested in the construction.
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High end Vintage SS amp vs the best Class D amps
- Thread starter Goodman
- Start date
Sry cant find only 95dB but without detailed measurements?
Ok my fault. I had to go to the pro subwoofer section. There is one with 104db -3b 27Hz.
With two 18 inch pro drivers in a ported case.
And one with two 15 inch pro drivers in portet case 101dB 27Hz -3dB
Thats the region we than talk about.
And we are still away from the 107dB.
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Just a couple of months. I was restoring a Teac 4300 open-reel deck and needed it for adjusting levels and bias. I have a nice Fluke digital meter, and even a nice Simpson multimeter, but this really makes comparing levels at 400 Hz and 16 KHz easy.
The usual recommended device is a two-channel Leader LM-186. But this one was cheaper—about a hundred bucks on eBay.
I couple it with the cheapie far-east budget-line Tektronix function generator and counter. And then my venerable Tektronix lunchbox portable scope.
Rick “few vintage test equipment purchases have proved as useful” Denney
Sort of an inverse application of Hoffman’s Iron Law.
Rick “bigger cabinets make more efficient speakers” Denney
Sry cant find only 95dB but without detailed measurements?
Ok my fault. I had to go to the pro subwoofer section. There is one with 104db -3b 27Hz.
With two 18 inch pro drivers in a ported case.
And one with two 15 inch pro drivers in portet case 101dB 27Hz -3dB
Thats the region we than talk about.
And we are still away from the 107dB.
I count 6 at 100db or better:
NOESIS 212HTR @ 101db
NOESIS 212RT @ 101db
Noesis 212XT @ 100db
Captivator 215PRO @ 101db
Orbit Shifter Pro @ 103db
Captivator 218PRO @ 104db
JSmith
Master Contributor
You seem to be missing the point... they're silly because they are stupidly inefficient wasting power converting to heat, nothing to do with "sound", which mind you properly designed amps don't have. In 2021 with the way we treat our planet, there is no reason for new large class a amps to be made anymore as there are more efficient better performing options. This is one reason why plasma panels were replaced by lcd and oled, as they too were inefficient in relation to power usage and produced a fair bit of heat. Sorry if my opinion irks you.
JSmith
- Thread Starter
- #127
Your opinion does not irk me. I am all for progress and energy conservation/ Sound is the the central point of this forum. Unfortunatly not all "properly designed" amplifiers sound the same and at present no class D amp is considered "state of the art".
Are you sure? Purifi anyone?
JSmith
Master Contributor
I'd appreciate some clarity on this statement, as you seem to claim it as fact without evidence, so I assume this is simply opinion?
You can still spend a fortune on class D if you like;
https://www.merrillaudio.net/element-118-power-amplifier-monoblocks/#1523017621518-fb141eac-962f
Amp topology type isn't relevant, its design and implementation that counts.
JSmith
dougi
Addicted to Fun and Learning
It probably depends upon your definition of "state of the art". Pirify is likely SOTA for Class D, but I think some other topoligies still measure better, such as the Halcros.
Noesis 212 htr
Frequency +/- 3db
60hz-24khz
Sensitivity*
101db (2.0 volts, free air)
And even the Noesis 215RT
https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5c2656621cefb00004803ab3?_k=omg35q
is measured at 40Hz down to 98 db.
but i dont like to count beans we startet
this with 107dB efficient speakers.
And my point that this will be very hard to get stands.
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In global terms a comparative handful of people using class A amps for maybe 10 or 20 hours a week is a grain of sand on a beach. It makes no difference to anything.
Televisions an entirely different matter as billions of people use them 24/7. Likewise with lightbulbs.
Lots of power consuming devices to ban before you get to class A amplifiers. Who want aircon banned? You'll need to jump that hurdle first.
JSmith
Master Contributor
That was more of a throwaway comment/joke that anything else... but the comments related to that they're an inefficient amp class stands as it is factual. Based on same I think they're dated and unnecessary. But I agree with you there are many other areas to focus on in relation to power efficiency (not total usage), however the discussion here was specific to that aspect.
Back on topic, as mentioned, I have vintage SS A/B amps and newer class D types... but no class A amp/heaters. The thread is a bit off to start with really, as amp class types probably shouldn't be compared on type only, moreso performance in general.
JSmith
yes I agree, only rubes think class A is automatically 'better'. Personally I've never experimented with a 'serious' class D amp, I stick with what I have only on the basis that if it's not broke then don't fix it. And with retirement looming my time of buying more equipment out of curiosity or just for the fun of it is over.
AudioSceptic
Major Contributor
Quite so. Of course anyone can choose to do what they want with their own money, but even if it means a slight loss in performance (if that is even the case), what sense does it make to waste all that energy and money on a tiny difference which is probably inaudible, or at least nearly so compared with the faults of the source recording, speakers, and listening environment?
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Your Trio unit will do down to 100uV (on the 1mV FSD range). Classic unit.
My analogue THD analyzer has a 0.3mV FSD range which will get me down to 30uV (-20dB from FSD). Wide open (no filters) is flat to 200kHz bandwidth. The old analogue meters are just wonderful. So reliable.
Crosstalk of NC252MP there. A good -100 dB for most of the frequency band. NC502MP should be similar.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/buckeye-6-channel-amplifier-review.18579/
There are no class A amplifiers considered state of the art. Regardless of performance they are big, heavy and an enormous waste of energy. Nothing close to state of the art.
In the meantime we have a class AB and class D designs beating 99% of class A amplifiers in performance, while being small, compact and energy efficient.
Can't forget that a proper class A amp has great linearity. example.> 100W@8R, 200W@4R and 400W@2R. I have not seen any class D amp with decent linearity specs never mind being linear. I'm all for good class D amps but linearity is a important ability for good sound.
cany89
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2020
- Messages
- 251
- Likes
- 127
I had almost 15 different amps over 2 years as I’m trading them. Right now, for a week or two I got one of the old class d amps, Chord SPM 400. It’s not bad but even with 130w / channel in 4 ohms, it sounds thin. I suspect back in the day it wasn’t cheap either. So I’m not sure if the price would justify the sound quality. Compared to a much more cheaper AB that I have right now, Nad C270, I would go with Nad any day.
I also had Nad C338. I guess it’s from 2017/18. Much newer than old Chord. I’m not sure about the sound. I think it can beat basic integrated from usual hifi brands, but not anything beyond it’s price point - as a power amp. (Usually I don’t get cheap units like this, I guess one other unit that is as cheap as this one was Marantz PM6006. But since I had that almost a year ago, I can’t compare the sound.)
Since OP asked for new state of the art class D, unfortunately I haven’t listened yet. Even so, I’m highly suspicious that class D can beat good ol ab amps.
One last think though: if the new class d can sound anything like 80-90 era mid tier amps. I would go for it! Having brand new units vs old caps and stuff that might give you headaches - anytime without warning. I had to send at least 4-5 amps to shop for caps, transistors, etc… I know there are a lot of DIY lovers here. No need to argue if you can do it yourself. But for me I had enough lol!
I also had Nad C338. I guess it’s from 2017/18. Much newer than old Chord. I’m not sure about the sound. I think it can beat basic integrated from usual hifi brands, but not anything beyond it’s price point - as a power amp. (Usually I don’t get cheap units like this, I guess one other unit that is as cheap as this one was Marantz PM6006. But since I had that almost a year ago, I can’t compare the sound.)
Since OP asked for new state of the art class D, unfortunately I haven’t listened yet. Even so, I’m highly suspicious that class D can beat good ol ab amps.
One last think though: if the new class d can sound anything like 80-90 era mid tier amps. I would go for it! Having brand new units vs old caps and stuff that might give you headaches - anytime without warning. I had to send at least 4-5 amps to shop for caps, transistors, etc… I know there are a lot of DIY lovers here. No need to argue if you can do it yourself. But for me I had enough lol!
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