Why do you use Roon for equalisation rather than the RME DAC please?
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Hifiman Arya Review (headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
(maybe because he finds it more convenient to screenshot for the review, and also probably more allowable bands of EQ vs the RME)
Thanks. Yes of course, the screen shot.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #444
I don't have RME in all of my systems. And as noted, Roon EQ is so much easier to configure given the graphical UI. I use that to visually build the EQ curve in consultation with the relative frequency response graph. It is hard to visualize otherwise.
Thanks
Thanks again for the link. Really useful. I had no idea this existed. I am considering buying the Arya, but in order to get a feel for hiFiMAN headphones I bought the cheaper Sundara which, with EQ gets a golfing panther. I have just downloaded the Sundara graphs, so together with the eq setting in the Sundara review, I should be able to set up my RME pretty well. I need to study the graphs a little more, particularly the Error Curve Histogram to determine the ‘without EQ’ and ‘with EQ’ differences, and what’Relative Statistic Frequency Percentage’ actually is!
Mitch
Mitch
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I was very glad when I found it myself, happy to be of help.
There are RME adjusted EQ settings for Sundara too on the link I shared, you might as well give them a try. I find it it is best to try a few EQ suggestions from different sources to see which one works best. Given variations between measurement results from different measurements rigs, different units and different heads and ear canals, it might be best to do a bit of trial and error with EQ I came to learn.
Although both are Hifiman, Sundara is quite a bit different to Arya sound signature wise. Sundara is from the round Hifiman family while Arya is from the egg shape one. I would recommend Quedelix 5K for $109 and trying the headphones before buying them if possible.
Hello gents and genties. I've been owning a pair of Arya SE for ~2 months and i'm gonna try and give a few pointers to those who (just as me) are sensitive to its treble. I'd consider that i've totally tamed them (but with BIG amounts of luck). WARNING - TL
R ahead (sorry for it).
When i first received them, i couldn't wait till i got home so i gave them a listen on what i had on hand: Oppo HA2-SE. My enthusiasm made me ignore the obvious treble harshness and instead, the first thing i noticed was the sub bass. Coming from a pair of LCD-2 Bamboo, i kinda forgot what that was (or sounded like). After 10-15 minutes, though, the treble started taking its toll. I listen to almost every musical genre out there, mood dependent. The second i played Vangelis's Roxane's Veil, i had to lower the volume and stop listening. Too harsh, too peaky for me.
Arrived back home where i had a simple setup, PC->Woo WA6 2nd gen. I had a dedicated sound board with some ESS DAC chips in and i never paid attention to dedicated, desktop DACs. Plugged them in, left the tubes to warm up a bit and after ~30 minutes, started listening. While the harshness was subdued, a bit, it was still there. Couldn't listen to anything that had high "s" in the vocals (Summer Wine, for example). It was ear piercing. Since the sound was passing through the dedicated sound board, which had its own OPA amps, i thought it's time to get a dedicated desktop dac. Something cheap and good. Got an EverSolo Z6 and gave the Arya's another listen. The same, since the Z6 couldn't function as a DAC only and still had the sound go through it's amp stage. The LCD-2's were sounding good, on the same setup but something was off with the entire chain.
I also tried applying EQ (oratory and the likes) with Peace but i still didn't like how it sounded. In my opinion, those EQ's are good, in general, for most people but they are also highly chain dependent. You apply corrections and gains but those were created while listening through a certain chain, which will almost always be different than your own. I gave up on eq-ing (i didn't like it anyway, as i always try to "color" the sound through the chain and not software).
So i ended up ordering a new pair of power tubes while also swapping the rectifier with a different, cheaper one (a russian made one) since i also started noticing some issues with the sound after an hour or so of warming up the tubes. Started searching for R2R dacs, in an attempt to see if i can tame the the blistering brightness of the Aryas (i'm highly sensible to sibilance, shoutiness, resonance, etc - the downs of working in the army, as an artillery retard, thus ignoring its effect on my ears).
Fast forward to 2 weeks, i was ready to press the buy button for an Ares 12th but just before doing that, my wife asked if i still had my old "toy" (she was referring to an Aune T1se 3rd gen). I laughed (nervously, since this is her way of trying to stray me from buying new, expensive equipment) and answered that yes, i do. "Have you tried and see if it makes any difference?" (she's a total stranger when it comes to audio technology but she does try to be the voice of reason, when possible, by asking such questions). Well, it didn't cost me anything to do so and after 1 hour, the new chain was PC (Foo2k) -> Aune T1se (DAC only - which i just discovered that it can do and totally bypass its amp stage) -> Wa6 -> Arya. Back in the day when i had been using the Aune, i did roll a few tubes and in the end, i was lucky to get one that was selling for ~500$ for 25$ (not gonna get into details as this is very much a personal and subjective topic) and stayed with it. Turned everything on and allowed the standard (for me) ~30 minutes of warm-up. To say that my expectations were low is to understate it. I did it so i could get my wife off my back and carry on with the Ares 12th purchase.
Grabbed a cup of coffe, sat at my desk, put the Aryas on and started with the "usual" (a number of songs that i know and listen to for 10-15 years). Gone through a couple of Enigma's tunes, listened to some Infected Mushroom, some classic trance songs and i didn't even realize that all of a sudden, i was enjoying Ville Valo & Natalia Avelon's Summer Wine. As in no harshness, no ear piercing "sssssss"-es, no nothing. While listening, i was also doing some reading so my attention was split, thus not paying attention to how different the songs sound but rather if they bother me or not. I stopped and focused exclusively on the music that was playing. High volumes, no harshness. All of the Arya's characteristics were still there, though. Sub bass extension, separation, etc. I couldn't believe my ears. I kept on listening for around 2 hours then i decided to take a break, go out for a quick 50 km bike stroll and then come back, listen to them through the "old" chain (with the Z6 and older tubes instead of the Aune and afterwards, the Z6 with the new tubes). This time, i allowed for ~1 hours of tube warming up and make no mistake, the treble harshness was back and more angrier than ever. Forced myself to listen for another hour after which i turned everything off and went out to grab a beer (just to make sure that i take a proper break from the fervor that had recently caught me).
When i came back home i swapped everything to the Aune and the new tubes, turned everything on and went to have my dinner after which i also watched a whole episode of a tv series. 2 hours later, i'm at my desk and, again, experiencing the same tamed (warm) sound from the Aryas. Shuffled through most of the "usual" and, again, no discomfort whatsoever. I will admit that i like my music on the warmer side, due to my sensibilities mentioned above so imagine my surprise when everything was, for the first time in almost 2 months, perfect.
I can safely state that no, my ears have not gotten used to the sound of Aryas. If they kept on being bright, i would have kept on avoiding listening to them. Mine is a medical issue and there's no getting used to sibilance, ringing, shoutiness - it gives me terrible headaches and nausea. While before, i could barely muster the strength for ~1 hour of listening to them, here i am now, close to 6 hours (while writing this) and still not even bothered by the sound. The LCD-2's sound incredibly dark on the same chain. So in my case, the resources needed to "tame" these headphones were tubes, wherever they were possible. The DSD1793 with the tube buffer from the Aune combined with the WA6 all contributed to what i can now call a sublime listening experience. Acoustic, vocal, orchestral, pop, rock, trance, psychedelic, etc - they all sound amazing and i can find no faults, whatsoever, to the current setup.
It's amazing how close i was to buying a >1000 Euro DAC just to get the same thing out of a 300$ (tubes for it and the Wa6 included) one (even worse, the Aune was listed for sale on a local platform, since i hadn't used it for ~2 years). Ended up returning the Z6 (awesome device, you really get a LOT for such little money and the build quality was amazing but sadly, it just wasn't for me) as a consequence.
Sorry for the wall of text and here's hoping that this helps at least a few of the Arya owners out there.
Happy auditions!
R ahead (sorry for it).When i first received them, i couldn't wait till i got home so i gave them a listen on what i had on hand: Oppo HA2-SE. My enthusiasm made me ignore the obvious treble harshness and instead, the first thing i noticed was the sub bass. Coming from a pair of LCD-2 Bamboo, i kinda forgot what that was (or sounded like). After 10-15 minutes, though, the treble started taking its toll. I listen to almost every musical genre out there, mood dependent. The second i played Vangelis's Roxane's Veil, i had to lower the volume and stop listening. Too harsh, too peaky for me.
Arrived back home where i had a simple setup, PC->Woo WA6 2nd gen. I had a dedicated sound board with some ESS DAC chips in and i never paid attention to dedicated, desktop DACs. Plugged them in, left the tubes to warm up a bit and after ~30 minutes, started listening. While the harshness was subdued, a bit, it was still there. Couldn't listen to anything that had high "s" in the vocals (Summer Wine, for example). It was ear piercing. Since the sound was passing through the dedicated sound board, which had its own OPA amps, i thought it's time to get a dedicated desktop dac. Something cheap and good. Got an EverSolo Z6 and gave the Arya's another listen. The same, since the Z6 couldn't function as a DAC only and still had the sound go through it's amp stage. The LCD-2's were sounding good, on the same setup but something was off with the entire chain.
I also tried applying EQ (oratory and the likes) with Peace but i still didn't like how it sounded. In my opinion, those EQ's are good, in general, for most people but they are also highly chain dependent. You apply corrections and gains but those were created while listening through a certain chain, which will almost always be different than your own. I gave up on eq-ing (i didn't like it anyway, as i always try to "color" the sound through the chain and not software).
So i ended up ordering a new pair of power tubes while also swapping the rectifier with a different, cheaper one (a russian made one) since i also started noticing some issues with the sound after an hour or so of warming up the tubes. Started searching for R2R dacs, in an attempt to see if i can tame the the blistering brightness of the Aryas (i'm highly sensible to sibilance, shoutiness, resonance, etc - the downs of working in the army, as an artillery retard, thus ignoring its effect on my ears).
Fast forward to 2 weeks, i was ready to press the buy button for an Ares 12th but just before doing that, my wife asked if i still had my old "toy" (she was referring to an Aune T1se 3rd gen). I laughed (nervously, since this is her way of trying to stray me from buying new, expensive equipment) and answered that yes, i do. "Have you tried and see if it makes any difference?" (she's a total stranger when it comes to audio technology but she does try to be the voice of reason, when possible, by asking such questions). Well, it didn't cost me anything to do so and after 1 hour, the new chain was PC (Foo2k) -> Aune T1se (DAC only - which i just discovered that it can do and totally bypass its amp stage) -> Wa6 -> Arya. Back in the day when i had been using the Aune, i did roll a few tubes and in the end, i was lucky to get one that was selling for ~500$ for 25$ (not gonna get into details as this is very much a personal and subjective topic) and stayed with it. Turned everything on and allowed the standard (for me) ~30 minutes of warm-up. To say that my expectations were low is to understate it. I did it so i could get my wife off my back and carry on with the Ares 12th purchase.
Grabbed a cup of coffe, sat at my desk, put the Aryas on and started with the "usual" (a number of songs that i know and listen to for 10-15 years). Gone through a couple of Enigma's tunes, listened to some Infected Mushroom, some classic trance songs and i didn't even realize that all of a sudden, i was enjoying Ville Valo & Natalia Avelon's Summer Wine. As in no harshness, no ear piercing "sssssss"-es, no nothing. While listening, i was also doing some reading so my attention was split, thus not paying attention to how different the songs sound but rather if they bother me or not. I stopped and focused exclusively on the music that was playing. High volumes, no harshness. All of the Arya's characteristics were still there, though. Sub bass extension, separation, etc. I couldn't believe my ears. I kept on listening for around 2 hours then i decided to take a break, go out for a quick 50 km bike stroll and then come back, listen to them through the "old" chain (with the Z6 and older tubes instead of the Aune and afterwards, the Z6 with the new tubes). This time, i allowed for ~1 hours of tube warming up and make no mistake, the treble harshness was back and more angrier than ever. Forced myself to listen for another hour after which i turned everything off and went out to grab a beer (just to make sure that i take a proper break from the fervor that had recently caught me).
When i came back home i swapped everything to the Aune and the new tubes, turned everything on and went to have my dinner after which i also watched a whole episode of a tv series. 2 hours later, i'm at my desk and, again, experiencing the same tamed (warm) sound from the Aryas. Shuffled through most of the "usual" and, again, no discomfort whatsoever. I will admit that i like my music on the warmer side, due to my sensibilities mentioned above so imagine my surprise when everything was, for the first time in almost 2 months, perfect.
I can safely state that no, my ears have not gotten used to the sound of Aryas. If they kept on being bright, i would have kept on avoiding listening to them. Mine is a medical issue and there's no getting used to sibilance, ringing, shoutiness - it gives me terrible headaches and nausea. While before, i could barely muster the strength for ~1 hour of listening to them, here i am now, close to 6 hours (while writing this) and still not even bothered by the sound. The LCD-2's sound incredibly dark on the same chain. So in my case, the resources needed to "tame" these headphones were tubes, wherever they were possible. The DSD1793 with the tube buffer from the Aune combined with the WA6 all contributed to what i can now call a sublime listening experience. Acoustic, vocal, orchestral, pop, rock, trance, psychedelic, etc - they all sound amazing and i can find no faults, whatsoever, to the current setup.
It's amazing how close i was to buying a >1000 Euro DAC just to get the same thing out of a 300$ (tubes for it and the Wa6 included) one (even worse, the Aune was listed for sale on a local platform, since i hadn't used it for ~2 years). Ended up returning the Z6 (awesome device, you really get a LOT for such little money and the build quality was amazing but sadly, it just wasn't for me) as a consequence.
Sorry for the wall of text and here's hoping that this helps at least a few of the Arya owners out there.
Happy auditions!
I'm thinking that previous post can mostly be ignored. (Some bad information, bad approach, people be wasting their time with such an approach)
(Some bad information, bad approach, people be wasting their time with such an approach)And why is that? Is it because i have failed to use eq (therefore, numbers) instead of relying on tubes to alter the sound to my liking? Or is it because you accuse psycho acoustics when i've claimed that i can always hear / be bothered by sibilance / shoutiness? (therefore implying that a medical condition is not responsible for my claimed sensitivity to certain frequencies). Or does it bother you that i've chose components that are known to alter the sound, "warming" it through added harmonic distorsion? (An all tube audio chain with a DAC that has been reviewed as "neutral to warm" by quite a lot of people). Which part of my approach is bad, per se? Or which information is bad and why is said information bad? Why would my approach be a waste of time when for some, tube rolling can actually tickle the brain and offer SOME quantity of emotional / audio pleasure? (it's basically a route towards discovering different sound signatures). Or maybe the fact that i've picked on some EQ presets, made by some well known people, bothered you in some way? Or are you trying to tell me that those presets should work because any and all audio chains HAVE to be neutral? Because there is no such thing as a 100% neutral chain and if you're trying to state otherwise, than it's you the one who's living in a world of psycho acoustics, not me (i have no issues in admitting i do but i'm also aware of its limits).I'm thinking that previous post can mostly be ignored.
No offense but if you want to keep the banner of "science good, everything else, bad" up to high standards, at least put some efforts into your reply. I have avoided derailing towards the (truly retarded) route of "cables improved the sound" or "after burning in for X hours, the soundstage opened" (i do not believe in ANY of these).
So here i am, open to a constructive discussion. Help me with all the facts and routes you have and at the end of it, please explain to me why yours are so much better than mine, as to call it a "waste of time".
First, I'm glad that you have found a way to enjoy your music! It is great and most important! But using tubes as low pass filter is bad idea generally, and probably not applicable to other people as you have special requirements determined by your hearing.
I don't think you're genuine which is why I didn't bother replying to the specifics, if you've spent even a small amount of time reading around here on ASR before posting then you'd know that everything you wrote in your post was the polar opposite of rational scientific logical thought & what is trying to be achieved here on ASR. If you do happen to be genuine, then instead don't post for a while & instead read up around some different subjects here on ASR before you post again. It would be very obvious just from spending even a short amount of time reading around on ASR that your post was the antithesis of what's trying to be achieved here on ASR, and you would know that - so either stop trolling or if genuine read around some more on ASR before posting. There's no point in indulging trolls with wasted conversation, and at the same time newbies can quickly understand the general thought & logic behind ASR by spending a short amount of time reading on here before making their first post (which is what genuine posters would do) and so avoid making initial posts like yours.
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"Rational scientific logical thought". Again, you quote words which are supposed to seem scientific but you lack any proper arguments. Instead of applying PEQ, i've decided to use tubes and because i failed to use numbers, you're calling me a troll / not genuine. Second, i have read enough of both ASR as well as other forums which are either similar or polar opposites so i think i have quite a good grasp of what's what, in regards to audio equipment. Lastly, as an ex-music producer and remixer, i think i can both handle and tell the differences between different audio equipment (excluding DACs) while relying on my hearing (in regards to the equipment used). I have been doing audio mastering work for over 10 years and have worked in extremely controlled audio environments as to ensure that the end result satisfies the customer. I never stated that a DAC will make any (easily) quantifiable difference and in my particular case (and post), i mentioned the fact that it was the amplifier that made the difference when talking about the Arya SE headphone.
This is a headphone related thread so my entire post was aimed at it. I had to specify some variables, as to allow others to properly assess if my experience suits them or not. But nonetheless, it seems that you have a quirk when it comes to either new posters which fail to quote purely scientific data or simply new posters in general.
On an ending note, it seems that you're one of the (many) people i've seen that do not listen to music through their equipment but rather watch some graphs and issue a verdict. That's perfectly fine when talking about DAC/ADC products but in regards to to headphones, which will always have unique sound signatures, there is no "correct" approach. Neither your "scientific" nor my "by ear through tube rolling". It all comes down to personal preference (again, when it comes to headphones) and since some people complained about the Arya's harsh sound, i thought i'd chime in with my experience, in case there are other people who are either using tube products in their chain or are thinking about it.
You really need to tone your condescending attitude down and try to be less judgemental. You barely know me yet, you proceeded to call me a troll simply because i haven't used graphs, numbers and SINADS in my thread. Rest assured that just as easily as you can make me realize that there are NO differences (which i never stated they are) between different dacs, when properly tested (under the ASR standards), so can you be influenced in thinking that there are differences between certain DACs, in the proper environment. The difference between us is that i have no issues in accepting it while you seem to hold yourself on a high pedestal of scientific knowledge while claiming to have a definitive grasp on how audio works.
I won't go into human anatomy and the issue of head / ear fit of head/earphones and argue that while the measurements might be identical, the sound perceived might be different just because of those factors alone.
In the end, i'll close by saying that it is quite easy to distinguish a troll from someone who's honestly trying to help by adopting a different path, in regards to HEADPHONES. There is no science>all when it comes to this aspect (and this alone). You can use PEQ, mod the headphones, resort to a tube chain, etc. They all WORK and since the scope is achieved through either, then that's all that matters. The rest is personal preference.
You really need a dose of common sense and respect. You're sorely lacking and from what i can tell, you're trying to fit in with the bunch, here. Sadly, you picked the wrong thread / post to do so and you've only managed to prove to me how huge of a deficit you have when it comes to your character and persona. IF you want to carry on this conversation, i'll be around, waiting for your scientific arguments and not simple name calling, rudeness and a jerk attitude.
G'day.
Thank you!
I'd never suggest using tubes as a low pass filter to anyone if it came to anything else but a pair of (in my opinion) overly harsh headphones. I started from the logic that maybe there are people out there who are searching for this kind of sound (tube specific, distorted sound). I have rarely had the impulse of recommending anything to anyone, i'd always be neutral in my responses and opinions since this is one of the most subjective topics out there. My posts were meant with no ill regards and while i am, indeed, conditioned by a specific anatomic condition, i still have to deal with its shortcomings since my side job forces me to use analytical equipment, as much as possible (while i love the DT880s for their intended purpose, i hate what they do to my ears after a 4-5 hours session in the studio).
I truly respect your experience and opinion, and have no problem with reading it here. I'm not into tubes, but I can respect opinion that someone can like something other than me. At least tubes really can change sound, but tuning sound with cables makes me crazy and I cant stnad those people forcing this nonsense to other.
I think you are a adult man and have no problem dealing with harsh responses here from other members. It is only matter of opinion, taste and respect...
Enjoy your music!
solderdude
Grand Contributor
inhale .... count to 10 ... exhale.
Enjoy the music every which way you can.... be it by staring at plots and believing them to be accurate or staring at tubes and believing they insert magic.
Enjoy the music every which way you can.... be it by staring at plots and believing them to be accurate or staring at tubes and believing they insert magic.
I'm sorry, but I think you've got a lot to learn (but really my initial viewpoint on you hasn't changed re "genuine" so I'm not going to engage).......it also wouldn't hurt if you tried to keep the length of your posts down whilst doing so. I'm not gonna be drawn into an argument with you.
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Don't worry, i fully understood what's what, at least in regards to you. You're not worth the time and effort and i'm quite sure you're anything but knowledgeable.
To be honest, i couldn't care less in regards to your opinion. Keep it and wet it so it grows into a healthier one. Maybe you'll discover something new, along the road.
I won't overload your brain anymore. Wouldn't want any of that science pouring out of it, would we?
P.S. If in your opinion, a healthy discussion = an argument then i would really re-evaluate my character. You're sorely lacking, in many regards.
Fine that we've both said our pieces, I do still stand by my prior posts, but I'm not overly fussed by our conversation. If you do stick around and start making good posts and learning some more, then I'm certainly open to changing my mind about you, about me thinking you're not genuine......but time will tell, and I don't mind being wrong really, but time will tell.
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