Hifiman Ananda Review (headphone)

[KiyPhi]

Having a subjective opinion is perfectly fine. I still like beyerdynamic t1 in spite of Amir giving it a headless panther. I have bought products on Basis of Amir's reviews and enjoyed it. It's a guide and we can use his technical acumen.
I am not science, I have my own biases towards certain kind of sound.
Other than hard to drive, I dont see how anyone can dislike he6 or se. But hey your money, you chose where to spend it. -

Drivability isn't an issue. Mine came with the speaker adapter but my headphone amp is powerful enough so that is moot. A hard to drive headphone might actually justify my amp choice aside from it having a remote and two equal powered outputs, lol.

I don't like it because it has a grand canyon of an upper-mid dip to the tune of 8dB. If it weren't for that, it would be a leading class headphone to me. But that dip just kills the overall sound as it doesn't sound the slightest bit natural which is my preferred tonality. With EQ they sound phenomenal but if I am to spend that much on a headphone, I want it to sound good both with an without EQ. The newest Sundara revision removes the similar but lesser magnitude dip so I prefer the sound of it best but Ananda has the best comfort.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Positioning matters a lot for Ananda. Positioning a little back solves most high frequency peaks.

 

[the_brunx]

did Resolve really stand through the whole interview while he sits?

 

[amirm]

But which type of measurement better represents the audibility of the distortion?

I don't know what they do. On my part, I rather have raw measurements and then apply psychoacoustic analysis to them. With half modified response, you are in no-man's land without your own controlled tests to show efficacy.

Similar argument exists for a-weighting of electronic measurements. While the curve for that allows for higher threshold of hearing in low frequencies, it is not exact enough to be reliable.

 

[amirm]

amir do you care more about digging in your heels even when the methodology could have been better or more controlled/consistent, or do you care more about investigating to see what's accurate?

If you know anything about science of headphone measurement, you would know that your second alternative is a fantasy. Headphone measurements are approximate. Worst accuracy exists at both ends of the spectrum. The device simply does not yield itself to accurate measurements.

I always use the analogy that headphone measurements are like a compass for directions rather than GPS. You would really be lost without them but no way can you expect pinpoint accuracy.

As such, one has to do further analysis to determine if what is shown in measurements are indeed audible impairments. I do this using controlled listening tests and careful, individual equalization. I see a dip, I put in the inverse in EQ. I turn that on and off (both sighted and if needed, blind). With experience, I am able to guess correctly about 70% of the time. If it doesn't work, then I tune if further. If the final outcome is still unknown, then I mention in the review that I was frustrated and could not really determine the cause and effect there.

Fortunately in vast majority of cases, equalization works and confirms the key frequency response (and distortion) shortcomings in measurements. Members are then able to verify my work by applying my equalization and report back. Generally, most of the feedback I have seen on my EQ profiles have been positive with some choosing to adjust them some.

Net, net, you are way out of line with your tone and position. I have developed a system to make do in a difficult situation to get usable data. It follows research findings in this regard and actually advances it with the above equalization technique.

 

[amirm]

just because a surface is flat does not automatically mean a better seal, a contoured surface is often sealed more effectively against a properly/similarly contoured surface, likely why they were designed this way

You lack experience to know what you are talking about. As I mentioned, I tested with with anthropomorphic head in the form of B&K 5128 HATS:

The curvature of the head made it a lot harder to get a good fit. To the extent the "face" rotates away from the pad, it increases such a gap compared to a flat plate. In the case of the Ananada, that is the very part where the pad stays proud which would make it even less of a fit on 5128 and hence a human head.

After spending nearly 3 months with 5128, and not being able to make inverse equalizations that improved fidelity, I switched to GRAS 45C and it was a revelation:

I managed to get correct results after correct results in short order. Indeed, if you ask the industry people what they think of GRAS 45CA, they tell you that it makes "too good of a fit."

So again, cut out the attitude and learn what we are doing here. I have measured probably 40 headphones now. Arguments like yours were made early on but the process has proven to be highly effective if you understand the scope and capabilities of headphone measurements as I have explained to you. There is a lot of skill going into what is being measured, and interpreting them. Don't shoot from the hip with random statements like that.

 

[KiyPhi]

snip

Out of curiosity, given how large the pads are, was there any part of the pad handing over? The bump then drop looks so similar to the air gap that was measured on the HE4XX before and the Sundara video I posted. I know my hearing ability is decent, I have trained up to level 9-10 in the Harman How to Listen program on almost all courses and spent hours on end listening to those test tracks so I feel confident saying that I don't have such a drop off on mine. I even tested with just sine waves. I very may be wrong but curiosity gets the best of me.

 

[avddreamr]

Amir,
I own this headphone along withh the Sundara; I was looking forward to this review. I hoped that your measurements could quantify what I’m hearing in additional top-end sparkle that is reminiscent of ribbon tweeters providing “pleasing distortion”.

I do wonder if it’s possible that has Hifiman's QC is such that you have a unit with poor drivers. Since your experience appears to be unique.

 

[Anmol]

Drivability isn't an issue. Mine came with the speaker adapter but my headphone amp is powerful enough so that is moot. A hard to drive headphone might actually justify my amp choice aside from it having a remote and two equal powered outputs, lol.

I don't like it because it has a grand canyon of an upper-mid dip to the tune of 8dB. If it weren't for that, it would be a leading class headphone to me. But that dip just kills the overall sound as it doesn't sound the slightest bit natural which is my preferred tonality. With EQ they sound phenomenal but if I am to spend that much on a headphone, I want it to sound good both with an without EQ. The newest Sundara revision removes the similar but lesser magnitude dip so I prefer the sound of it best but Ananda has the best comfort.

re: he6- different strokes for different folks- i do find he6 quite natural sounding with solid weight behind notes. sundara does not have that solidity of notes but i am still happy with it at its price point.
when you say latest sundara revision what exactly do you mean? do you mean is there a v2 version? i read somewhere that Hifiman denied there is such a thing as updated sundara? instead it was claimed there was glue between pads and surrounding plastic frame which use to break seal - this glue was changed to accommodate hotter climate and its stability. it was claimed that no other change was made in product.
anyways, we are going away from topic of ananda which is this review on. i did listen and thought ananda didn't sound right. i am a minority obviously.

 

[amirm]

Out of curiosity, given how large the pads are, was there any part of the pad handing over?

No. The fixture is larger than it.

I know my hearing ability is decent, I have trained up to level 9-10 in the Harman How to Listen program on almost all courses and spent hours on end listening to those test tracks so I feel confident saying that I don't have such a drop off on mine.

This drop off is below 35 Hz. You need specialized content to test for it and comparison to other headphones without this drop. In absence of this, there is no way to know if your sample is similarly situated or not. Harman training is not helpful in this regard.

Here is a track with such deep bass: Terje Isungset - Fading Sun

There is deep bass here that most speakers can't reproduce. But a headphone like AKG K371 does so with ease.

 

[Helicopter]

No. The fixture is larger than it...

I am glad I didn't bring up my biggest concern before you addressed it.

 

[Maiky76]

Hi,
Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF).
• The range above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo the boosts and preamp gain need to be carefully considered to avoid issues

Excellent L/R match.
I have generated one EQ, the APO config file is attached.

Note that -1.5dB was used for HF to be closer to the initial voicing.
The score in bracket corresponds to the neutral/flat Harman curve.

Score no EQ: 74.1 (65.2)
Score Armirm: 62.0 (52.7)
Score with EQ: 78.3 (69.8)

Hifiman Ananda APO EQ Score 2 96000Hz
April092021-110216

Preamp: -5.7 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 22 Hz Gain 5.89 dB Q 0.97
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 36.7 Hz Gain -3.46 dB Q 3.4
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 93 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 1.65
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 944 Hz Gain -2.2 dB Q 6.28
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1790 Hz Gain 5.77 dB Q 1.5
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 2995 Hz Gain -3.62 dB Q 1.72
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 7204 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 0.52
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 8020 Hz Gain -3.7 dB Q 6.43
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 12465 Hz Gain -9.36 dB Q 8

With regards to the apparatus:
IEC318: IEC711 artificial ear + flat metal plate unrealistically good fitting, no pinna, very low leakage, very high repeatability, probably the most commonly used fixture for production inspection
HATS: IEC711 artificial ear + anthropometric head most accurate representation but probably over representation of fitting leakage (a real human would adjust to best fit instinctually) low repeatability. Industry standard.
GRAS 45CA: half way house between the IEC318 and HATS lowish leakage but higher repeatability than the HATS.
The Harman research is based on it so much easier to do all the scoring and EQ on this one, it's getting a lot of traction in the industry because of that.

 

[KiyPhi]

No. The fixture is larger than it.


This drop off is below 35 Hz. You need specialized content to test for it and comparison to other headphones without this drop. In absence of this, there is no way to know if your sample is similarly situated or not. Harman training is not helpful in this regard.

Here is a track with such deep bass: Terje Isungset - Fading Sun

There is deep bass here that most speakers can't reproduce. But a headphone like AKG K371 does so with ease.

I referenced the Harman program to help reaffirm that I wasn't hearing higher up in the spectrum and thinking it was a lower frequency than it was, basically just trying to show I knew what it sounded like since you have to identify which frequencies are being boosted/reduced.

That bass is deep and it is nice. I couldn't imagine what that would feel like in a good room with good speakers but it rumbles my ears and even my head at some points nicely. Would the headphone as you hear and measure it not be able to feel those rumbles?

I really liked the AKG K371 from the lower mids up. It is a lovely headphone but it is highly seal dependent and I get quite the roll off with it, almost no mid to lower bass at all. I have thicker framed glasses and a protruding jaw that has made any headphone with a higher acoustic impedance not seal correctly. It is very inconvenient.

Do you have any more tracks you can link with bass like that? Not for testing purposes, for my own enjoyment. I liked it a lot.

 

[_listener_]

I referenced the Harman program to help reaffirm that I wasn't hearing higher up in the spectrum and thinking it was a lower frequency than it was, basically just trying to show I knew what it sounded like since you have to identify which frequencies are being boosted/reduced.

That bass is deep and it is nice. I couldn't imagine what that would feel like in a good room with good speakers but it rumbles my ears and even my head at some points nicely. Would the headphone as you hear and measure it not be able to feel those rumbles?

I really liked the AKG K371 from the lower mids up. It is a lovely headphone but it is highly seal dependent and I get quite the roll off with it, almost no mid to lower bass at all. I have thicker framed glasses and a protruding jaw that has made any headphone with a higher acoustic impedance not seal correctly. It is very inconvenient.

Do you have any more tracks you can link with bass like that? Not for testing purposes, for my own enjoyment. I liked it a lot.

Honestly "positions" and "thank u next" by Ariana Grande both go down to 20Hz at times

 

[tential]

You lack experience to know what you are talking about. As I mentioned, I tested with with anthropomorphic head in the form of B&K 5128 HATS:

The curvature of the head made it a lot harder to get a good fit. To the extent the "face" rotates away from the pad, it increases such a gap compared to a flat plate. In the case of the Ananada, that is the very part where the pad stays proud which would make it even less of a fit on 5128 and hence a human head.

After spending nearly 3 months with 5128, and not being able to make inverse equalizations that improved fidelity, I switched to GRAS 45C and it was a revelation:

I managed to get correct results after correct results in short order. Indeed, if you ask the industry people what they think of GRAS 45CA, they tell you that it makes "too good of a fit."

So again, cut out the attitude and learn what we are doing here. I have measured probably 40 headphones now. Arguments like yours were made early on but the process has proven to be highly effective if you understand the scope and capabilities of headphone measurements as I have explained to you. There is a lot of skill going into what is being measured, and interpreting them. Don't shoot from the hip with random statements like that.

You'll never hear the end of the seal thing until you add videos/pics of the headphone on the measurement.

Every negative review will be this.

 

[LightninBoy]

Do you have any more tracks you can link with bass like that? Not for testing purposes, for my own enjoyment. I liked it a lot.

Here's an entire thread dedicated to the topic ...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bass.18999/

 

[KiyPhi]

Here's an entire thread dedicated to the topic ...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bass.18999/

Thanks, I'll check through there. I have only really looked at the reviews on here.

 

[Rayman30]

Despite just receiving this headphone a couple of days ago (I enjoy it actually) its a bummer to see this review. But I have been seeing a lot of bickering in the comments here about methodology, I am not sure perfection can ever be achieved with any testing methodology, but can I just say that despite not seeing the results that I wanted, I trust that these measurements are done objectively and sincerely, and I am thankful that Amir takes the time to post them.

 

[tothereIwent]

I think these measurements are important for us to have so we have comparison points for quality and Amir is doing us a great service by doing his work.

However, I think attitudes on here can be on the extreme end of dogmatic to the point of sounding absurd at times. There are countless people commenting that they get equivalent or better sound quality listening to cheap AKG headphones. I don't see how this is possible. It reminds me of Tyll saying he liked the ATH-m40x over the Z1R - after that statement, it was more or less widely perceived as fact. In that case, I've heard both and I actually own the Sony's. There's no comparison between those headphones.

I see a similar thing happening here. People patting themselves on the back saying their $100 AKG headphones sound better than Focal Clears and simultaneously sighing a relief that they just crossed off the Ananda's from their wishlist and didn't waste their money. It's funny to see honestly. I have tried the Anandas, I don't own them. I own the Aryas, and they are relatively close but not quite. There is a presentation to the music that Amir hints to that is truly a special experience - one that you don't get with HD 650's, for example. Whether or not this quality is worth the asking price is up to consumers to decide. For me, the Arya is one of the most unique and exciting presentations of music I've ever heard and are worth it to me.

I think looking at graphs for most things reviewed on this site is pretty cut and dry.. amps, dacs, etc. But at least for headphones, I would really advise for people to listen to them in person before claiming to know what they sound like. These reviews are great references for headphones' hardware technicalities and also are great for hearing Amir's subjective takes on the qualities of particular headphones. With that said, I truly believe it is the latter which matters more for these products.

Also will just add: I can see Amir likes bass/subbass. Oh how I would really love to see some thoughts on the Sony Z1R's...

 

[Sak]

for headphones, I would really advise for people to listen to them in person before claiming to know what they sound like.

Agree with you.
I own Ananda and Sundara.
Personally, Sundara suits me more in terms of tonality and sound, than Ananda.
But despite this, I also like Ananda, and have two criteria when choosing:
1 -I enjoy listening to music with these headphones
2 or not.
If not, then I won't buy them.
If so, then despite the measurements, I will gladly continue to use them.