Like the title says, has the objective of ASR been reached? Consumers and companies have took notice of the importance of objective performance and I believe it has significantly changed the market. I'd guess as time goes on, the amount of audio companies shooting for objective performance will continue exponentially.
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Has the objective of ASR been reached?
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JSmith
Master Contributor
Maybe... to an extent, but eternal vigilance is required. There is still much snake oil out there to be exposed and regular checking of commonly purchased products to be done.
JSmith
JSmith
Zensō
Major Contributor
Snake oil salesmen have been around for a long while and are not likely to disappear anytime soon.
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raif71
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To me, music listening is subjective. Take for instance tube amplifiers...most of them measure less than stellar, yet there will be people who swear that the amp tubes sound much better than solid state amps that measure better. Such is the preference of people and the subjective nature of music listening.
DSJR
Major Contributor
But this isn't high fidelity if the sound system is chosen on a nice 'pleasing' tone rather than trying to get as near to the mastering session as possible, the playback gear influencing the reproduction as little as possible.
I should add that the subjectivist side of audio reproduction is still huge, especially in some markets where the price tag itself indicates the quality of 'sound' reproduced. I occasionally glance at the sites I used to be a part of and recoil back almost nauseous at some of the vibes and comments there which are so 'factually wrong' a lot of the time it beggars belief. I no longer fit in, so don't post as all it does is create bad feelings in their generally harmless little clubs.
I think ASR should continue and thrive, but do watch the tribal aspects and try to learn about the *suite of* measurements undertaken as a whole. I'd suggest that increasing hf distortion may be far more noticeable in some circumstances than wideband noise, which all of us oldies got used to with FM radio (-75dB or so) or vinyl which is (approximate figures) around -40db at lower frequencies and I'd say typically with a domestic player and commercial pressings little more than -70dB at hf due to the RIAA playback eq.
the mark up of snake oil products is just insane, they will not simply and easily give up.
One of a facebook groups I'm in let a guy who believes in cable ("power cable makes a difference, subtle, but different") to be "Group expert", and recently promoted him to Admin. And that group is for Denon AVR, no less - imagine it in "fancy" audio equipment groups. So you also have die hard believers as well. they will continue echoing what they heard and believe (without evident) to new comers.
on other hands, subjectivists will move to pseudo science methods just to prove their points.
ASR mission is far from over.
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raif71
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I would lke to say that I'm on the middle ground as far as being objective and subjective. ASR site is very valuable to me and to others as well but like I said music listening is very subjective. As far as saying quality of sound correspond to high price tag, I believe this is just perception and generalization. Personally I would not buy anything that is beyond what I'm wlling to pay and if I did and it sounds rubbish then I've got a few things to say... As it is, I'm generally happy with my purchases. The recommendation from this site is very valuable for my shelling out money on audio gears.
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Geert
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There will always be people without formal education in audio and EE who can use some help in gaining understanding. Unless at a certain point people would put more trust in AI bots than in the beliefs of their fellow audiophiles, Hifi reviewers and marketeers. Don't think I will ever see that day.
Its impossible to continue exponentially. For that to happen , you would need an infinite amount of companies. And we know, that is not the case.
fpitas
Master Contributor
It's never-ending. As long as people can make quick, easy money on hapless audiophiles, they will.
that is actually covered quite a lot by other reviews, including most of the subjective ones. you know, because they don't have much to say about measured performance, a 10m Youtube video will not fill itself.
I don't buy exclusively by Amir's views, but rather use that as a starting point ...
fpitas
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We have threads about usability and build quality, too. Some are quite popular.
melvinjames
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Not from where I sit. Amir’s and ASR’s impact is positively changing the game but I still see quite a bit of push-back (i.e., “I trust my ears more than measurements”). I think in time we’ll see more and more of the old guard embracing low-distortion/high-transparency gear. Newer, younger enthusiasts are entering the hobby with such an advantage today and many can’t imagine spending gobs of cash on exotic cables, linear power supplies, signal purifiers, etc. Their perspective is different, no longer having to rely on some verbose reviewer whose taste may align with their own.
The push-back isn’t surprising. Imagine spending years churning through gear, honing your listening skills, shelling out all that cash only to find out your starting point was flawed. Like others, I’ve been there. It’s deflating yet freeing at the same time. It takes time to let go of those old habits and biases but as more and more of the old guard embraces this path to good sound, more will follow.
The push-back isn’t surprising. Imagine spending years churning through gear, honing your listening skills, shelling out all that cash only to find out your starting point was flawed. Like others, I’ve been there. It’s deflating yet freeing at the same time. It takes time to let go of those old habits and biases but as more and more of the old guard embraces this path to good sound, more will follow.
