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Better sound vs better experience?

I want to start by clarifying a few things so that there is no misunderstanding: I'm not "worried/unhappy". I'm a little taken aback by the amount of parameters to take into account but it's fine, I have other interests in life and some led me to even bigger vertigos! So, my bad if I sounded upset.
Good. I was worried. You did seem upset.

I'm not unhappy with my system, I'm not looking to change it now, I am mostly looking to learn and share with an intellectually rigorous audio community such like yours :)
Wonderful. We'll take the compliment. Flattery will get you a long way at ASR.

Don't worry, Rob. In the end it's the enjoyment that matters and enjoyment is subjective.
Sounds like my catchphrase: We are all subjectivists in the end.

For myself, the information here at ASR made the process of assembling a good sound system easier by an enormous magnitude compared to the classic audiophile process...
Yup. I came here in 2019 because I was so frustrated and annoyed by HiFi sales. Ended up with the Sierra Ascend Tower.

@Rob_Gordon I saw in your intro post that you're a musician. What do you play, do, make...?
 
Are the Blades better? Damn straight they are better! But - are the differences so significant that I ought to shell out an additinal 35K?

I can confidently say - that for me - with my financial capabilities -
I clicked like on your post but that's not enough. You did a really tremendous job of presenting this story.
 
@MaxwellsEq : I get where you coming from but I want to add a third term to your input and it's the law of diminishing returns applied to time and effort instead of money. I'm already convinced better measuring is better period. What I don't know is how much time and effort would be needed for me to get to better measuring sound in my place
I'm glad to hear you are happy with what you've got. That's a great place start from!

I agree about diminishing returns. I've never been wealthy enough to keep buying gear. My turntable and arm are more than 35 years old. Untill they finally became too unreliable, my preamplifier and power amplifier were also more than 35 years old. My speakers are 25 years old. I achieve this by buying stuff that measures well (so I can stop worrying whether my hearing and brain are misleading me). And I buy gear which is well built. I'm also lucky and I've never lived anywhere where the mains power is unreliable.
 
Once again, thank you all for your kind answers!

So, another set of replies:

I wasn't really worried, as I said, but it's true that it kinda comes an goes! I used housecurve today and did not like what I saw ahaha! I have a friend who is both a sound engineer and an acoustician, and I told him where I'm at, so he might come over and do a proper measurement with his gear and help me set up a filter to add to Roon or at least a PEQ.

I tried to play with it a bit today and it was pretty disconcerting: when I turned it on, the sound felt different weird like "this is wrong and there is too much of that") but after 10 mins, it sounded great... and when I turned it off, I was like "oh my god, this is wrong and there is too much of that"... and after 10 mins, it sounded great!

You get why I don't trust my ears! I feel like I can enjoy differently different set ups. And it's like I'm never too sure what I prefer.

Here is a metaphore: when you watch a movie at home, your image can be "more or less accurate" (as in hi-fi actually, the colors, the contrast, the darkness...) and your image can be small or big. It's like I'm not too bothered by the differences in colors and everything as long as 1)it's UHD and 2) it's huge!

I feel like a kid! Just wanting to be in awe of something spectacular, incapable of a proper critical listening! That's it. I'm a teenager when it comes to my system! And I kinda want to become a grown up like you guys ahaha

@Sgt. Ear Ache : For myself, the information here at ASR made the process of assembling a good sound system easier by an enormous magnitude compared to the classic audiophile process of watching a bunch of reviews in which people said a whole bunch of stuff
Oh yes, I completely understand!

You had a really thoughtful first post and I think it resonated with a lot of people. Your strength of character stands out even in this short interaction, with a thank you and even an attempt not to flood your own thread! ;)
Thank you so much!
It’s fun vicariously spending other people’s money.
ahaha, I so get it, I want to set up systems for my friends with their money all the time!
Congrats.
Thank you again!
I may have missed the current setup you have, but in a way it doesn’t matter if you like it.
Yes, for now, I don't want to share it with everyone because I do not want to read "oh, well, you can probably sell this and this for so much, and then you can probably get such and such for so much". And I know it WILL happen if I do.

I bought my gear pretty recently, it is not cheap and it's the resulting of a bunch of different constraints/deals. I think it probably can be optimized with room correction and this is why I'm starting to toy with Roon. But yes, I clinch to the fact that I cried with that system, as it is. So it's "good enough".

Instead of trying to match a measurements based system to what you already like, it makes the most sense to try something with no preconceived notion or adjustment to what you already own.
yes, indeed it does.
Mg current system is very much science driven. I currently run all Meyer Sound gear and a Trinnov Altitude 32. The system is the price of an nice car at retail (but again, I spent a lot less).
Woaw, interesting! So what model are the speakers?
I tell that story because:
1) patience brings you deals.
2) I have a very premium “Summit Fi” system
3) You need ~$1200 to experience a measurements based system, ideally $1500 to $2500, and will get 80% of the performance of my “if I won the lottery” type system with just $2500.
Yes, that's pretty compelling (and I did spend more than that!)
#1 important element: speaker
#2 important element: DSP
#3 important element: source
#4 important element: knowledge

I would take a great speaker with no DSP and a YouTube source over a state of the art (SOTA) DSP and DAC and amplifier and lousy speaker.
Oh ok, very interesting indeed! I wouldn't have anticipated that.
Everyone likes to say that the source is the most important. You cannot deal with poor recordings with limited dynamic range or incorrectly mic’d environments, etc. While you may have the option of picking which recording of something like Tchaikovsky’s Nutracker Suite is the best, if you like Taylor Swift, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, the soundtrack to Wicked, the soundtrack to Avengers, you get what you get. You might find better versions of pop music or better songs you enjoy within a genre, but if you like _______, you get what you get. You cannot say that I want the Beatles with more dynamic range than they had. Remixes and remasters only go so far.
Yes, we can't control everything...

How? How can you tell from reading posts on an internet forum that the sound you're hearing is not good sound, that it is deficient?
Well, more than just "posts", it's a global reasoning. I made a bayesian bet and figure that my system most likely wouldn't measure great. But I will probably have more solid data confirming this soon!

@eddantes : thank you very much for this very interesting answer. This is not a perspective that's often presented but it is very important. And it says a lot about what I was saying earlier, how I could just get used to very different sounding set ups. Thank you :)
Good. I was worried. You did seem upset.
Maybe a little more than I'm ready to admit?
Wonderful. We'll take the compliment. Flattery will get you a long way at ASR.
ahahah, duly noted!
I saw in your intro post that you're a musician. What do you play, do, make...?
Yes, but very amateurish. I've made very different music, from post-grunge to experimental electronic, or noise, spoken word, post-punk, ambient... I can't really play any instrument well, but I toy with fortunate accidents and sometimes, it pays off!

@MaxwellsEq : yes, the money! but also: the time, the worries, the insomnias... It's a gamble!
 
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I tried to play with it a bit today and it was pretty disconcerting: when I turned it on, the sound felt different weird like "this is wrong and there is too much of that") but after 10 mins, it sounded great... and when I turned it off, I was like "oh my god, this is wrong and there is too much of that"... and after 10 mins, it sounded great!

Which means that your speakers are likely great! Or your state-of-mind is also great! (Glass half full). EQ can help for different recordings because you never know how the original was mastered and mixed.


This is amazing considering the era that this recording was made and knowing that it’s even more engineered today.

Speakers that “take EQ well” have similar on and off axis sound. So even if you have a “bad speaker” that’s voiced away from neutral, if it has similar on and off axis sound, that bad speaker can be corrected to be flat or be maintained in the “voiced” condition that presumably attracted you to the speaker in the first place.

Speakers that do not take EQ well are not wrong — it’s just “less predictable” how it will sound in individual rooms and “less predictable” how it will be received by the marketplace let alone individual listeners.

I bought my gear pretty recently, it is not cheap and it's the resulting of a bunch of different constraints/deals. I think it probably can be optimized with room correction and this is why I'm starting to toy with Roon.
So what model are the speakers?

I have Meyer Sound Amie’s as the LCR in my HT and have Meyer Sound X40’s and X23’s as well, both of which were purchased at paperclip prices.


They are not attractive speakers. They are not ugly, but they truly are industrial pro-audio components. The context of the Meyer Sound Amie was that I was watching Star Wars: Ahsoka and depending on the target curve or speaker I was using, I would hear the light sabers as either raw/harsh or elegant/calm. Unlike a real musical instrument where you have a standard, the question arose in my mind if the lightsaber was supposed to sound raw and energetic to reflect the lethal power of the weapon or if it was supposed to be more subdued as it was an instrument of “more civilized time.”

Doing some research, I saw that Skywalker Sound uses Meyer Sound for everything and knowing that true room correction is only up to the transition frequency, I figured that the Meyer Sound “sound” was going to most closely replicate what the studios intended. Having lived in the Bay Area, I was generally familiar with Meyer Sound as a Berkeley institution and its use in commercial audio. If you enjoyed a Cirque du Soleil production of a broadway musical like Wicked, or even a Disney live theatre production, it was on Meyer Sound speakers. The Directors Guild of America recently moved to Meyer Sound for their screening theatre, etc.

In terms of domestic constraints, the biggest one is the industrial look of the Meyer Sound gear. You can pay extra for custom paint, but it’s definitely not a luxury look. Though, those who know, know. You are also paying for US domestic production and a company whose founders have chosen to build a business around supporting living wages in one of the highest cost of living areas in the world. They also are science driven with enough Hippie audiophile non science


Science

Hand waving

There are speakers like B&W, Sonus Faber, or even McIntosh which don’t match the perfect “science” ideal of neutrality. Depending on your model, the same can be said with Focal, with slightly wider than “textbook” high frequency dispersion. All four companies product very attractive speakers and owners of these speakers have shown in room measurements that show how the V shaped B&W measuring speaker actually translates into a more neutral than expected in-room response in their own homes.

Your furniture, artwork, room dimensions, and listening position will all make big differences in HF response.

Companies making science based speakers have to target the “average” home environment. As I am sure you saw when shopping for homes, no two homes are identical.
 
Which means that your speakers are likely great! Or your state-of-mind is also great! (Glass half full). EQ can help for different recordings because you never know how the original was mastered and mixed.
A sincere thank you for your generosity and optimism. It says a lot about your character, trying to make me feel good about my situation while encouraging me to explore further... exactly the kind of push one needs!


This is amazing considering the era that this recording was made and knowing that it’s even more engineered today.
Thanks for that, I'm gonna check this out :)
Speakers that “take EQ well” have similar on and off axis sound. So even if you have a “bad speaker” that’s voiced away from neutral, if it has similar on and off axis sound, that bad speaker can be corrected to be flat or be maintained in the “voiced” condition that presumably attracted you to the speaker in the first place.

Speakers that do not take EQ well are not wrong — it’s just “less predictable” how it will sound in individual rooms and “less predictable” how it will be received by the marketplace let alone individual listeners.
Thanks, that's a very interesting way to look at things – one I hadn't been exposed to, yet.
I have Meyer Sound Amie’s as the LCR in my HT and have Meyer Sound X40’s and X23’s as well, both of which were purchased at paperclip prices.


They are not attractive speakers. They are not ugly, but they truly are industrial pro-audio components. The context of the Meyer Sound Amie was that I was watching Star Wars: Ahsoka and depending on the target curve or speaker I was using, I would hear the light sabers as either raw/harsh or elegant/calm. Unlike a real musical instrument where you have a standard, the question arose in my mind if the lightsaber was supposed to sound raw and energetic to reflect the lethal power of the weapon or if it was supposed to be more subdued as it was an instrument of “more civilized time.”

Doing some research, I saw that Skywalker Sound uses Meyer Sound for everything and knowing that true room correction is only up to the transition frequency, I figured that the Meyer Sound “sound” was going to most closely replicate what the studios intended. Having lived in the Bay Area, I was generally familiar with Meyer Sound as a Berkeley institution and its use in commercial audio. If you enjoyed a Cirque du Soleil production of a broadway musical like Wicked, or even a Disney live theatre production, it was on Meyer Sound speakers. The Directors Guild of America recently moved to Meyer Sound for their screening theatre, etc.

In terms of domestic constraints, the biggest one is the industrial look of the Meyer Sound gear. You can pay extra for custom paint, but it’s definitely not a luxury look. Though, those who know, know. You are also paying for US domestic production and a company whose founders have chosen to build a business around supporting living wages in one of the highest cost of living areas in the world. They also are science driven with enough Hippie audiophile non science


Science

Hand waving
I love that story! It's great! but you never told us: how does the saber sounds for real?! A New Hope is one of the movies that really marked my childhood... when you write : "with enough Hippie audiophile non science", what do you mean? I'm intrigued :)

There are speakers like B&W, Sonus Faber, or even McIntosh which don’t match the perfect “science” ideal of neutrality. Depending on your model, the same can be said with Focal, with slightly wider than “textbook” high frequency dispersion. All four companies product very attractive speakers and owners of these speakers have shown in room measurements that show how the V shaped B&W measuring speaker actually translates into a more neutral than expected in-room response in their own homes.

Your furniture, artwork, room dimensions, and listening position will all make big differences in HF response.

Companies making science based speakers have to target the “average” home environment. As I am sure you saw when shopping for homes, no two homes are identical.
Yeah, I'm gonna PM you I think!
 
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