Harsh Sound

[sigbergaudio]

The answer is in your next comment.

Left with an anemic sound, but your speakers have a full frequency response, so should provide a balance sound, if placed properly and you are seating at a good spot.
Funny, to me, that you are posting about not liking what you hear, ready to throw away your perfectly fine speakers but not wanting to, at least momentarily, discard the sub. Sub is notoriously difficult to use and place and more often than not just detrimental. Not hearing the sub is in no way a proof of concept.

I would say that harsh sound is not a very typical symptom of a poorly integrated sub.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I had a similar experience after my speakers were tested on this site and their flaws revealed. My ears/brain became incredibly sensitive to the frequency range highlighted as an issue. As I use a computer as source, I was able to implement EQ which has helped me at least find the speakers acceptable but some of the magic from my period of ignorance definitely left and is unlikely to come back!

The magic can come back if you play around with some EQ to your liking. And especially room correction..

 

[caught gesture]

The magic can come back if you play around with some EQ to your liking. And especially room correction..

I’m using Dirac Live and Voxengo PrimeEQ. I can’t unsee those Spinorama audio measurements though!

​

 

[Mean & Green]

I had a similar experience after my speakers were tested on this site and their flaws revealed. My ears/brain became incredibly sensitive to the frequency range highlighted as an issue. As I use a computer as source, I was able to implement EQ which has helped me at least find the speakers acceptable but some of the magic from my period of ignorance definitely left and is unlikely to come back!

I had a similar reaction to some Pioneer headphones I used to have about 30 years ago. I liked them until I saw a What HiFi 2 star review of them. It stupidly put me right off the headphones straight away. Granted I was young then and easily influenced by the popular HiFi mags and I wouldn’t take any of their reviews seriously now.

Seeing real hard data showing severe flaws are hard to swallow though in this case. Although they are not the exact same speaker, there are going to be similarities and I was previously un aware.

On a different note the system is currently sounding superb after a day at work.

 

[Mean & Green]

Thank you for the replies guys, going forward this week and this weekend I will be experimenting with my two pairs of speakers in the same room.

I think ultimately I will probably go down the DSP route and add some form of DSP to my NADs tape loop so I can use it with every source. I like CDs & vinyl as well as my digital music library so it all needs to be EQ’d easily the same way and then I’d be able to keep the Tannoys for now, as they do a lot of things right for me. It’s going to be an interesting week though.

 

[sigbergaudio]

DSP / EQ rarely work super well to "fix" speakers though, they're mostly to help adjust for the room (and primarily in the bass). But worth a shot of course!

 

[Chromatischism]

I think in this case the problems are probably above the Schroeder frequency, and listening position measurements are likely to confuse more than help. Both measurements are obviously best, but I'm thinking speaker correction, not room correction is what is needed.

Definitely speaker correction, but in a sense you're doing the same thing, one just takes into consideration the effects of reflected sound as well.

 

[majingotan]

Just for curiosity, do you get harshness with Vinyl playback at all?

 

[Mean & Green]

Just for curiosity, do you get harshness with Vinyl playback at all?

Yeah all sources.

 

[majingotan]

Definitely needs DSP to tame the narrow FR peaks that’s causing harshness. I play my music above 90+ dB C-weighted for at least a full album or 1 hr for those engaging chest thumps, rumbling deep bass and clear vocals and refined and extended treble (only achievable with toe-in and on-axis listening with ear directly at tweeter level) with ZERO harshness on vocals and instruments whatsoever on my Yamaha HS7 nearfield monitors 1 meter away on-axis equilateral position

BTW, I use no eq whatsoever and the only settings are from HS7’s room mode at -4dB bass cut (close proximity to the wall) and subjectively sounds relatively flat in frequency response +/- 3 dB

To me, a good speaker system must NEVER EVER sound harsh at 100+ dB c weighted or else change speakers if DSP still couldn’t fix the issue.

Extremely rough Frequency Response measured at listening position using my iPhone 12 smartphone 1 meter away from tweeters without any EQ whatsoever. Notice the dip near 4KHz and this actually helps with sibilance and harshness and gives a sense of "depth" (a classic FR trick done on many headphones to increase soundstage perception BTW). In my case, my in-room response automatically has this dip hence why I can crank up the sound very loud without any listening fatigue whatsoever

 

[Mean & Green]

So to update, the Tannoys are the problem.

My old B&W DM 601 S3 don’t exhibit this problem in the same room. Covering the glass table with think blankets and/or cushions does nothing to mitigate the harshness from the Tannoys either.

I performed some basic and perhaps crude measurements with a tone generator app via my network streamer and measured with iPad and iPhone microphones at my listening spot. Not the best test I’m sure, but it gave me some kind of indication that my Tannoys have a significant spike at 2.7KHz of about 7 or 8 db (which I could hear when playing the tones).

To cut to the chase I’ve tried a pair of KEF Q750 in my local dealer and have now ordered a pair to replace the Tannoy XT-6F. Once the KEFs are in place and I’ve lived with them for a bit I’ll probably look into DSP room correction next if I feel it necessary.

I got a discount on the KEFs and also added a VIP members discount on top of that so I’m getting them a few hundred £ lower than RRP.

 

[majingotan]

Ouch that's some serious harshness in there. As you can see on my listening position, without any DSP and without any EQing, on my room, I get a minor -3dB dip on that 2.7-3KHz region and the effect is ZERO harshness or peaks on vocals even at IMAX level listening. The overall FR is within +/- 3dB from 30Hz to 16KHz at my listening position thus yielding incredible clarity and headbanging musical engagement.

 

[Mean & Green]

Ouch that's some serious harshness in there. As you can see on my listening position, without any DSP and without any EQing, on my room, I get a minor -3dB dip on that 2.7-3KHz region and the effect is ZERO harshness or peaks on vocals even at IMAX level listening. The overall FR is within +/- 3dB from 30Hz to 16KHz at my listening position thus yielding incredible clarity and headbanging musical engagement.

I can listen to lots of material that doesn’t pose a problem, but the stuff that does is just unbearable. I listen to lots of different stuff and it’s only lately I seem to be uncovering the music in my collection that these speakers seem to hate.

I was quite shocked at the 2.7K peak TBH. It explains a lot.

 

[JeremyFife]

Nice to find a real reason. Enjoy the new speakers

 

[Soniclife]

I was quite shocked at the 2.7K peak TBH. It explains a lot.

It does, this is a frequency some speakers have an intentional dip at, to create a smooth sound.

 

[Soniclife]

The whole Kef Q series is being replaced, so good deals should be around, hopefully you got one.

 

[Mean & Green]

The whole Kef Q series is being replaced, so good deals should be around, hopefully you got one.

Yep, they were already discounted and because I’ve purchased there before I was eligible for a further £100 off on top of that. I got them for £699.

 

[killitmore]

Hi guys, I just measured my speakers in room and there is a peak in 1-2khz region. Is there a way to counter that peak by speakers placement/absorption instead of using EQ?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Hi guys, I just measured my speakers in room and there is a peak in 1-2khz region. Is there a way to counter that peak by speakers placement/absorption instead of using EQ?

Can you share the measurement?

 

[Keith_W]

Hi guys, I just measured my speakers in room and there is a peak in 1-2khz region. Is there a way to counter that peak by speakers placement/absorption instead of using EQ?

As per Bjorn - please share the measurement. Best if you zip your .MDAT and upload it to ASR.

Also be aware that funny peaks that randomly appear may be the result of improper measurement technique. I have seen WAY TOO MANY people use those mini tripods that come with the UMIK-1 and plonk it on the chair. The distance between the microphone and the closest reflecting surface is about 20cm, which will produce a peak at (you guessed it) 1.7kHz.