• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Harsh Sound

Retail at £1K means at most £100 for drivers, cabs and crossovers.

You can build a decent speaker for that but it's going to have many limitations. These days a grand doesn't buy that much (at least not brand new).

What amplifier are you using? If it's under-powered that won't be helping.
I appreciate the RRP isn’t what they cost to make, but let’s face it most ‘normal’ people won’t be dumping 1k on speakers and those that do expect performance.

The amplifier is a NAD C326 BEE, it isn’t the issue. The speakers are 90db sensitively and 8 ohm impedance. The NAD is more than capable for my needs at the levels I listen to.
 
How's your ears? I swear I'm not being rude or baiting and am arguably one of the only peeps here who could ask you this with absolute integrity, but can you say for sure that other sound systems you have or have recently heard, sound fine to you compared to the one under discussion? (apologies if you've confirmed that already). It came as a terrible shock to me when I saw the results of my hearing tests :(
 
The amount of money spent on speakers has no correlation to the sound. Tests of expensive speakers here on ASR should remind you of that unless you haven’t been following this forum for long. Various brands inject a ‘house sound’ which is not flat or are ‘box stuffers’ who make a pretty product that has become fashionable for some reason but has no basis in proper engineering. I spent way more than 1000 quid to be always struggling with the sound. Once I saw reviews that included tests of my speakers and the results of my tests with a UMIK-1 microphone I understood why. EQ with Equalizer APO cleaned up the sound immeasurably. But now my PC has to be the source. My CD player may never be touched again. Alas.
 
How's your ears? I swear I'm not being rude or baiting and am arguably one of the only peeps here who could ask you this with absolute integrity, but can you say for sure that other sound systems you have or have recently heard, sound fine to you compared to the one under discussion? (apologies if you've confirmed that already). It came as a terrible shock to me when I saw the results of my hearing tests :(

Hearing is fine as mentioned earlier in the thread. Also I have no issues with my second system or my two pairs of headphones.
The amount of money spent on speakers has no correlation to the sound. Tests of expensive speakers here on ASR should remind you of that unless you haven’t been following this forum for long. Various brands inject a ‘house sound’ which is not flat or are ‘box stuffers’ who make a pretty product that has become fashionable for some reason but has no basis in proper engineering. I spent way more than 1000 quid to be always struggling with the sound. Once I saw reviews that included tests of my speakers and the results of my tests with a UMIK-1 microphone I understood why. EQ with Equalizer APO cleaned up the sound immeasurably. But now my PC has to be the source. My CD player may never be touched again.

My point was £1000 isn’t insignificant for a pair of speakers and we should be able to expect a certain level of performance when spending money like that on what are supposedly hifi speakers. The fact that the whole hifi speaker market is riddled with poor engineering, questionable marketing and sponsored subjective reviews etc is a valid point, but it doesn’t change what I said. We should be able to expect better.

For what it is worth if I was in the market for speakers now (which I might be) this is the place I’d be looking up models I am interested in.
 
Hearing is fine as mentioned earlier in the thread. Also I have no issues with my second system or my two pairs of headphones.


My point was £1000 isn’t insignificant for a pair of speakers and we should be able to expect a certain level of performance when spending money like that on what are supposedly hifi speakers. The fact that the whole hifi speaker market is riddled with poor engineering, questionable marketing and sponsored subjective reviews etc is a valid point, but it doesn’t change what I said. We should be able to expect better.

For what it is worth if I was in the market for speakers now (which I might be) this is the place I’d be looking up models I am interested in.
That is ASR’s strength, learn to understand loudspeaker measurements and how they correlate or just ask the question here.
Keith
 
I don't think the rooms helping, but my money is on the speakers, specifically the frequency response. I'll join the buy a measurement mic suggestions, and measure them in the near field, it should give you a good idea what's going on over 1khz.

Do you have any ability to EQ now?

Do try the other speakers, which model are they? This will give you an idea how the rooms influence the sound.

All speakers can have a brighter sound dialed into them with EQ, sometimes all it takes is a small tweek of the treble knob, to taste. Have you tried a simple treble reduction?

FWIW I've not heard your specific tannoys, but others over heard have been mid forward and a bit shouty, with weak bass, which isn't far from how you are describing things
 
Interested to know what makes you think that?
The answer is in your next comment.
Switch it off however and I’m left with a very anaemic sound
Left with an anemic sound, but your speakers have a full frequency response, so should provide a balance sound, if placed properly and you are seating at a good spot.
Funny, to me, that you are posting about not liking what you hear, ready to throw away your perfectly fine speakers but not wanting to, at least momentarily, discard the sub. Sub is notoriously difficult to use and place and more often than not just detrimental. Not hearing the sub is in no way a proof of concept.
 
Last edited:
Have you switched speakers between your systems and noted results?
 
I don't think the rooms helping, but my money is on the speakers, specifically the frequency response. I'll join the buy a measurement mic suggestions, and measure them in the near field, it should give you a good idea what's going on over 1khz.

Do you have any ability to EQ now?

Do try the other speakers, which model are they? This will give you an idea how the rooms influence the sound.

All speakers can have a brighter sound dialed into them with EQ, sometimes all it takes is a small tweek of the treble knob, to taste. Have you tried a simple treble reduction?

FWIW I've not heard your specific tannoys, but others over heard have been mid forward and a bit shouty, with weak bass, which isn't far from how you are describing things

The other speakers I have are Bowers & Wilkins DM 601 S3.

In terms of EQ I have a Schiit Loki Mini + on all sources, or I could use the equaliser on my iMac only for my digital library via airplay.

I have tried treble reduction, dipping the 2KHz range works best as I actually do like the sparkly treble I get with the system just not the occasional harshness. The 2KHz dip isn’t completely effective with all problem material unless I seriously alter the perceived tonal balance to unnatural levels.
The answer is in your next comment.

Left with an anemic sound, but your speakers have a full frequency response, so should provide a balance sound, if placed properly and you are seating at a good spot.
Funny, to me, that you are posting about not liking what you hear, ready to trough your perfectly fine speakers but not wanting to, at least momentarily, discard the sub. Sub is notoriously difficult to use and place and more often than not just detrimental. Not hearing the sub is in no way a proof of concept.
Yes the speakers should have a full range sound depending on environment but they don’t deliver it in my space. The speakers position and listening position are as good as they are going to get in what is my living room. I didn’t design the layout of doors windows, dimensions, shape and construction material. I can only do so much with the constraints I have. I have spent considerable time implementing the sub woofer which has been part of the system for five years.

If the speakers sounded full without the sub I wouldn’t be using it. Switching the sub off is totally anaemic.

I’m also not here to trough my speakers at all, I came on asking if anyone could spot areas for improvement on room acoustics. Most of the opinion is that the speakers are mostly to blame. For what it’s worth I mostly like and enjoy my system where most music poses no issues, but those occasional times where it hurts my ears I’d like to fix.
 
The speakers position and listening position are as good as they are going to get in what is my living room.
I respect that, I am just trying to help, it is up to you to totally ignore my advices.
I am talking to you from the perspective of years of experience, having changed from a living room (many) to a dedicated music room with total freedom of where to put everything opened my horizons understanding that as long as you have decent gears, (which you do) placement will have a much higher impact of what you hear.
 
I respect that, I am just trying to help, it is up to you to totally ignore my advices.
I am talking to you from the perspective of years of experience, having changed from a living room (many) to a dedicated music room with total freedom of where to put everything opened my horizons understanding that as long as you have decent gears, (which you do) placement will have a much higher impact of what you hear.
I appreciate and understand that.

I’ve actually found moving house a few times very frustrating as the same kit sounds completely different in different rooms. The best room I had was my bedroom when I still lived with my parents in a 1950s house, the sound was superb in that room. My B&W DM 601 S3 which I still have from over 20 years ago have never sounded as good since and I blame the wall construction in modern houses.

I’ve been an audiophile for more years than I care to admit to, it’s been a journey from believing the utter nonsense in hifi mags to questioning things, to finding the truth at ASR. I would rather seek advice here than randomly try attacking this issue.

I am in no hurry to dispose of my speakers as most of the time I like them.
 
I’ve been an audiophile for more years than I care to admit to, it’s been a journey from believing the utter nonsense in hifi mags to questioning things, to finding the truth at ASR.
I have been believing the same nonsense for many years as well and also started to understand better what is happening after reading ASR and the many links to studies explaining how we hear and what really makes a difference.
We are fortunate to have such a ressource and Amir advice are golden.
Still I believe too many members are still way to quick to point to the hardware when so much else is to be considered first.
 
The room indeed can and often does make a lot of difference. That's why I'd switch speakers between rooms to start, just for that perspective. Dedicated rooms for a/v would be nice, but personally haven't had one of those, altho my main bedroom isn't far off since I do watch/listen quite a bit in there.
 
I don't think the rooms helping, but my money is on the speakers, specifically the frequency response. I'll join the buy a measurement mic suggestions, and measure them in the near field, it should give you a good idea what's going on over 1khz.
I agree, but a measurement at the seat would tell us even more.

The good news is that if he can implement EQ, the concentric driver should take it well. Bringing down the peaks should help hugely.
 
I agree, but a measurement at the seat would tell us even more.
I think in this case the problems are probably above the Schroeder frequency, and listening position measurements are likely to confuse more than help. Both measurements are obviously best, but I'm thinking speaker correction, not room correction is what is needed.
 
The other speakers I have are Bowers & Wilkins DM 601 S3.

In terms of EQ I have a Schiit Loki Mini + on all sources, or I could use the equaliser on my iMac only for my digital library via airplay.

I have tried treble reduction, dipping the 2KHz range works best as I actually do like the sparkly treble I get with the system just not the occasional harshness. The 2KHz dip isn’t completely effective with all problem material unless I seriously alter the perceived tonal balance to unnatural levels.
I didn't find a measurement of your old speakers online, but I expect they are not at all bad, but with a bright top end, which you like.

There must be good EQ options on the Mac, hopefully someone else can advise.

Your description of the reducing the 2khz sounds promising, if you had a measurement to guide some PEQ filters you should get a better result.
 
I had a similar experience after my speakers were tested on this site and their flaws revealed. My ears/brain became incredibly sensitive to the frequency range highlighted as an issue. As I use a computer as source, I was able to implement EQ which has helped me at least find the speakers acceptable but some of the magic from my period of ignorance definitely left and is unlikely to come back!
 
Back
Top Bottom