Harsh Sound

[Mean & Green]

Sorry if this is a long read, but I’m reaching a point where I would like some help. I have attached pics of my living room which is also my main listening area.

Speakers are Tannoy Reveloution XT-6F and a Tannoy HTS active subwoofer. I experience harshness in the upper midrange, I’ve lived with this setup for the last 5 years (the age of the house) and what was initially perceived as a clear detailed sound is in recent times is becoming increasingly grating.

I have no issues with Beyerdynamic DT 770 & 990 Pro headphones which ironically many people criticise, I find them far superior in every aspect to the sound I get from these speakers in this space. I do sometimes reduce the 2KHz region to ‘tame’ the harshness in my room but it isn’t always effective.

It’s not all source material, but it is a more frequent problem than it should be IMO. Basically vowel sounds on vocals ‘meeee’, ‘yoooouuu’, ‘heeeyyy’ etc can be painful. It seems to be vocals much more than actual instruments that demonstrate this harshness I perceive.

I would be interested in thoughts on the room. There are hard reflective surfaces, I have got soft throws and cushions on the leather sofas to reduce comb filtering, I have random objects scattered on the coffee table and a rug beneath it. The floor is concrete the walls are plasterboard. I have the speakers as far from walls as is reasonably practicable.

Without the subwoofer the room and speaker system has very little in the way of bass, the subwoofer is essential to bring some depth and impact to the sound. The bass is actually very good subjectively. It is not overblown there are no nasty resonant peaks, it sounds cohesive and powerful when the source material demands it, bass lines are easy to follow without swamping the room.

I currently have no measuring equipment, I maybe should purchase a mic and find out exactly how deficient the Tannoys are. I have wondered if my hearing has changed since early on in this room I was perfectly happy (although was aware it was on the bright side of neutral) and my wife does not seem to share the same complaints regarding harshness, but I’ve always been more sensitive to sound than her.

I have no clue where to start regarding room treatment and I cannot find any meaningful data on the Tannoys frequency response. Some input would be appreciated.

 

[Multicore]

Try to think about what changed. Is it you, the room, the speakers, sources, something else in the system? Then start to debug by elimination.

For example, are the speakers damaged? You can maybe eliminate that with test tones and your phone.

Or, for another example, if you think the audio system up to the speakers is working correctly and the same as 5 years ago, then has the room changed substantially?

Or, for yet another, maybe you don't like the sound of these speakers in this room any more, i.e. you changed.

You're best placed to work through these "what changed?" conjectures because we have no reference to the situation 5 years ago.

 

[Mean & Green]

Try to think about what changed. Is it you, the room, the speakers, sources, something else in the system? Then start to debug by elimination.

For example, are the speakers damaged? You can maybe eliminate that with test tones and your phone.

Or, for another example, if you think the audio system up to the speakers is working correctly and the same as 5 years ago, then has the room changed substantially?

Or, for yet another, maybe you don't like the sound of these speakers in this room any more, i.e. you changed.

You're best placed to work through these "what changed?" conjectures because we have no reference to the situation 5 years ago.

The only changes to the entire chain physically will be me my ears are 5 years older.

The speakers, the room and the electronics have not changed and I’m confident the electronics are transparent.

 

[Galliardist]

Is it likely to be much different to the XT 6:

Tannoy Revolution XT 6 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Tannoy Revolution XT 6 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. It is on kind loan from a local member. They cost US $1,200 but I see them discounted to $1,050. The industrial design of the XT6 is unique with downfiring port that is integrated into the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Tannoy Revolution XT 6 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Tannoy Revolution XT 6's farfield behavior with DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the speaker's nearfield responses. Tannoy specifies the Revolution XT 6's sensitivity as "89dB," which I assume...

www.stereophile.com

So, I suspect that they are bright and maybe waiting to be noticed. However, a change as you notice seems a little odd after that time.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Seems like you have grown tired of the sound from the speakers.

 

[Mean & Green]

Is it likely to be much different to the XT 6:

Tannoy Revolution XT 6 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Tannoy Revolution XT 6 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. It is on kind loan from a local member. They cost US $1,200 but I see them discounted to $1,050. The industrial design of the XT6 is unique with downfiring port that is integrated into the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Tannoy Revolution XT 6 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Tannoy Revolution XT 6's farfield behavior with DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the speaker's nearfield responses. Tannoy specifies the Revolution XT 6's sensitivity as "89dB," which I assume...

www.stereophile.com

So, I suspect that they are bright and maybe waiting to be noticed. However, a change as you notice seems a little odd after that time.

I have seen this thread previously when looking for measurements on my XT-6F. There are bound to be similarities I’m sure between the 6 & 6F.

I am very guilty of noticing a flaw in a particular situation then constantly listing out for said flaws with everything else. I’m sure my room acoustics could be improved regardless.

 

[Purité Audio]

RE`W and a microphone is the best place to start.
Keith

 

[Blumlein 88]

For one your room looks like it has little damping. Here is a chart from Stereophile of the XT6. The XT6F is apparently the same speaker with a woofer added. This sure looks like a speaker with an untidy upper midrange. Also might help if you pull them out from the wall even a little, but I can see you are constrained somewhat in this sense.

You might invest in a Umik 1 and use REW for some measurements and then use a bit of EQ.

 

[Mean & Green]

For one your room looks like it has little damping. Here is a chart from Stereophile of the XT6. The XT6F is apparently the same speaker with a woofer added. This sure looks like a speaker with an untidy upper midrange.
View attachment 393813

You might invest in a Umik 1 and use REW for some measurements and then use a bit of EQ.

Yes the 6 & 6F share the same dual concentric driver. My room for sure is probably a bit ‘lively’ too.

I think measuring is looking like the only way to go.

 

[JeremyFife]

We change, sometimes that just happens. Sometimes it's physical, more often it's psychological. Not a problem, just life.

Have you had a hearing test recently (5yrs)? Worth doing that.

Perhaps your inner self just fancies new speakers

Measure your hearing, measure your room, search your soul - see where that takes you.

 

[Mean & Green]

We change, sometimes that just happens. Sometimes it's physical, more often it's psychological. Not a problem, just life.

Have you had a hearing test recently (5yrs)? Worth doing that.

Perhaps your inner self just fancies new speakers

Measure your hearing, measure your room, search your soul - see where that takes you.

I have had a hearing test recently. I have them annually at work, nothing wrong has been highlighted.

I am thinking it may be partly phycological too. Things can sound different from one day to the next depending on varying factors. I don’t really want new speakers, but having spent more and more time on ASR I’m now very aware that my speakers are most likely poor in technical ability. This to some extent always niggles in the back of the mind.

 

[Rednaxela]

Maybe you can find some inspiration in these EQ settings that were generated for its little sibling?

spinorama/datas/eq/Tannoy Revolution XT6 at master · pierreaubert/spinorama

A library to display and compare spinorama (speakers measurements) graphs. - pierreaubert/spinorama

github.com

 

[Old_School_Brad]

I have had a hearing test recently. I have them annually at work, nothing wrong has been highlighted.

I am thinking it may be partly phycological too. Things can sound different from one day to the next depending on varying factors. I don’t really want new speakers, but having spent more and more time on ASR I’m now very aware that my speakers are most likely poor in technical ability. This to some extent always niggles in the back of the mind.

Hey. There you have it! You found out what the frequency response looks like and are now under the influence of knowing..

 

[Multicore]

but having spent more and more time on ASR I’m now very aware that my speakers are most likely poor in technical ability. This to some extent always niggles in the back of the mind.

''The road to the Western Lands is by definition the most dangerous road in the world, for it is a journey beyond Death, beyond the basic God standard of Fear and Danger. It is the most heavily guarded road in the world, for it gives access to the gift that supercedes all other gifts: Immortality. Every man starts the course. One in a million finishes.''

 

[Mean & Green]

Hey. There you have it! You found out what the frequency response looks like and are now under the influence of knowing..

I honestly think this may be playing a part.

Although looking at my headphones response graphs doesn’t have the same effect on me. It just further proves to me how flawed subjective analysis is.

 

[Multicore]

It just further proves to me how flawed subjective analysis is.

Not exactly. Heterophenomenology is feasible and not just "in principle". It's not easy, that's for sure, but can be done. And autoheterophenomenology runs all kinds of personal risks from goldenearism to being able to hear defects you used to be insensitive to.

 

[Oddball]

Not surprised that eventually people get to know things they should have known before - I have a long history of realising things with delay (not necessarily in the audio realm though) and it is pretty common phenomenom.

Not sure what are you using as room correction system, perhaps could help. But at the end if you don't like the speakers there are plenty of good and great ones out there and nothing wrong with wanting them in your room.

 

[Roland68]

Sorry if this is a long read, but I’m reaching a point where I would like some help. I have attached pics of my living room which is also my main listening area.

Speakers are Tannoy Reveloution XT-6F and a Tannoy HTS active subwoofer. I experience harshness in the upper midrange, I’ve lived with this setup for the last 5 years (the age of the house) and what was initially perceived as a clear detailed sound is in recent times is becoming increasingly grating.

I have no issues with Beyerdynamic DT 770 & 990 Pro headphones which ironically many people criticise, I find them far superior in every aspect to the sound I get from these speakers in this space. I do sometimes reduce the 2KHz region to ‘tame’ the harshness in my room but it isn’t always effective.

It’s not all source material, but it is a more frequent problem than it should be IMO. Basically vowel sounds on vocals ‘meeee’, ‘yoooouuu’, ‘heeeyyy’ etc can be painful. It seems to be vocals much more than actual instruments that demonstrate this harshness I perceive.

I would be interested in thoughts on the room. There are hard reflective surfaces, I have got soft throws and cushions on the leather sofas to reduce comb filtering, I have random objects scattered on the coffee table and a rug beneath it. The floor is concrete the walls are plasterboard. I have the speakers as far from walls as is reasonably practicable.

Without the subwoofer the room and speaker system has very little in the way of bass, the subwoofer is essential to bring some depth and impact to the sound. The bass is actually very good subjectively. It is not overblown there are no nasty resonant peaks, it sounds cohesive and powerful when the source material demands it, bass lines are easy to follow without swamping the room.

I currently have no measuring equipment, I maybe should purchase a mic and find out exactly how deficient the Tannoys are. I have wondered if my hearing has changed since early on in this room I was perfectly happy (although was aware it was on the bright side of neutral) and my wife does not seem to share the same complaints regarding harshness, but I’ve always been more sensitive to sound than her.

I have no clue where to start regarding room treatment and I cannot find any meaningful data on the Tannoys frequency response. Some input would be appreciated.

I would suggest a simple workaround before you do anything else.
- Take your music to a HiFi store and listen to a few speakers in a similar price range. If the problem persists with different speakers and systems, it is your music or you. The dealer should be able to say something about that.
- If you don't have a problem with that, borrow a few speakers and listen to them at home.
- If the problem persists, is it due to your system or the room, then you can continue at this point.
- If the problem with the other speakers in your home has been resolved, it is your speakers.

I wouldn't start changing anything in the room without first narrowing down the cause. It is never a good idea to work on symptoms/effects instead of the cause.

 

[CapMan]

Big glass table between the speakers and your listening position won't help I imagine. Can you move it out of the way just to test...

 

[LTig]

Big glass table between the speakers and your listening position won't help I imagine. Can you move it out of the way just to test...

... or throw a thick blanket over the table.