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Harsh Sound

@sigbergaudio @Keith_W thank you for your response, attached file is the measurement. I adjusted the mic to be exactly at my listening position (LP). The mic was pointed to the ceiling, not to the speakers. My LP is around 1.25m from back wall and 3.5m to the speakers. The distance between speaker to side wall is around 60cm and rear wall is around 1.2m.
Stereophile measurement for Reference model 4 (the bigger brother of mine) confirmed the rise from 1 to 3 khz as well. Before searching for the measurement, I felt the speaker was too "in-your-face" as well
 

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@sigbergaudio @Keith_W thank you for your response, attached file is the measurement. I adjusted the mic to be exactly at my listening position (LP). The mic was pointed to the ceiling, not to the speakers. My LP is around 1.25m from back wall and 3.5m to the speakers. The distance between speaker to side wall is around 60cm and rear wall is around 1.2m.
Stereophile measurement for Reference model 4 (the bigger brother of mine) confirmed the rise from 1 to 3 khz as well. Before searching for the measurement, I felt the speaker was too "in-your-face" as well
I am afraid the mic you have is not suitable for room response measurements. The product page in the ISK website said that the mic's polar pattern is cardioid. For measurements, we need omni-directional mic's. Your mic is also designed for studio recording and not measurement, so its frequency response is also questionable.
@dualazmak I have not. Is there a way to measure the calibration for a mic using REW? Could not find my mic calibrated file online.
My mic is https://www.amazon.com/MonkeyClimb-...085X4DGZ5/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


I have tried different speakers: Wharfdale linton 85, Elac unifi Ub5 and currently Kef reference model 2. I wonder why my in-room measurements always have a huge peak from 1kHZ to 2kHZ? I thought the room only messup the frequency below 500Hz. I checked anechoic response measured by Amir for Elac and Erin for Wharfdale and those speakers do not have that peak.View attachment 395236
 
Thanks for uploading your MDAT. Here are some comments.

1727920229605.png


In black we have the Stereophile measurement of the bigger brother of your speaker. In red and green are your speakers (L, R respectively). In REW, I chose the same vertical and horizontal scale as the Stereophile measurement, then used an image editing program to scale the Stereophile measurement to fit, then I superimposed the two graphs.

You can see the difference. The Stereophile measurement does NOT have the same bump between 1-2kHz as your speakers. There is also more bass extension but that is probably because it has more woofers.

I just saw @NTK's response while I was typing this post. He makes a very important point that you are using the wrong mic. I would also add that mics (especially cardioid mics) should NOT be pointed at the ceiling because it will give you a treble drop which is what is observed here. I think that is the diagnosis as to why you have a bump - you are using the wrong mic, and you are using it improperly.
 
@killitmore I can only agree with the other posters that based on the measurement this is unlikely to be an accurate reading. Try again with a calibrated UMIK-1. Use the 0 degree calibration file and point at your system from your MLP. Beyond that, it's good that you did both a separate left/right as well as stereo measurement, do that again with your new mic. :)
 
FYI this is a Behringer ECM8000 (omnidirectional condenser mic) at 0deg, 45deg, 90deg, and 135deg.

1727956781245.png


Source

And that's an omni mic. You are using a cardioid, it would be even worse.
 
FYI this is a Behringer ECM8000 (omnidirectional condenser mic) at 0deg, 45deg, 90deg, and 135deg.

View attachment 396304

Source

And that's an omni mic. You are using a cardioid, it would be even worse.
Yeah, here is an omni at 1 meter, a cardioid at 1 meter at 0 degrees, and a cardio close at 20cm both 0 and 90 degrees (-10dB to keep the traces clearly visible).
1727988647820.png

The problem with cardioids is proximity vs. frequency response, vs. directionality. You can see the smiley-face EQ it imparts as you get closer to the source.

Pardon the oversmoothed traces. This is in my shop, large room modes dominate the bass at in the 1m traces, I don't suggest this level of smoothing in general.
Thank you @NTK @Keith_W and @Bjorn for your advices. I will start with purchasing a new Umik-1 and try different LPs in the room.
Perhaps also look up Moving Mic Method:
I used to rigidly record at specific locations, a member here pointed me to this.
 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...396638/&hash=e86642ca6b77b9a5243fb3bc22f95d68
Finally got the KEFs after my local dealer kept pushing back collection day.

Need to spend some time with them to make a really well formed opinion, but they are definitely a smoother sounding speaker without being dull or boring. They seem be doing whatever the source material is asking from them and don’t stray into uncomfortable harshness like the Tannoys did, and yet they are still very revealing of the source which I like.

Shame the Tannoy cabinets, terminals and feet are much more nicely finished overall than the KEFs but I know where it really matters (the sound) the KEFs seem to be a more versatile speaker. I still need the subwoofer but I expected that and will spend some time revisiting my settings to adapt to the change in bass response from the speaker change.

Next steps further down the line will be a proper mic to measure the room and implementation of DSP, but for now I’m much happier I no longer feel the need to wince when certain tracks are played, yet I still have that sparkling treble which I love.

I’ve adhered to the instruction manual and have the KEFs more than 9 inches from the rear wall, and I’m already well away from corners. In a few years I might treat myself to some R range Metas as endgame speakers, but for now - so far so good!
 

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I would just like to update further on my thread.

After a couple of weeks extended listening to my new KEF Q750 I can say that they are an improvement in every aspect of sound. I know this is not a subjective forum so I won’t waffle too much, but not only has the harshness issue been resolved but also the soundstage and imaging is improved. Sound spreads wider than the speakers and also deeper front to back than it did previously. The clarity is excellent and the bass is harder hitting without being over bearing. Vocals currently are the best I’ve ever heard from a pair of speakers I’ve owned.

The Tannoy XT-6F are for sale, can’t ever see me having a use for them again. Well and truly pleased with the Q750.
 
Because the Heco Aurora 700 and 1000 are not only very decent speakers for their price, but also play well. Good resolution, fun to play, but never harsh or annoying. For the 1000s, however, the room should be over 20 square meters.
Heco is one of the older and formerly large speaker manufacturers with a lot of experience. They date back to the Taunussound era together with Braun, Canton, etc.
Unfortunately, they have been very neglected since they were sold, especially in terms of marketing, image and dealerships.
They seem good. :)
Strange that I haven't seen them suggested more often when tips on floorstanding are wanted here at ASR. Maybe they aren't sold in the US, if that could be an explanation?

You have knowledge of the HECO Aurora 1000 speaker, but others who are curious can check the price and performance. It looks good.:)
  • Review Date: May 17, 2022 09:00
  • MSRP: $ 799/each
The Aurora 1000s displayed astonishingly good measurement performance that many more expensive speakers would be hard-pressed to match.
Screenshot_2024-10-18_145930.jpgScreenshot_2024-10-18_150832.jpg

 
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Lol, I read the other day that they are very good because they sound interesting :rolleyes: .
The thing is despite their inherent problems they do not sound bad. It took me a while to grow tired of them and how much their issues are revealed depends very heavily on the source material. Feed them with very well produced music and they sound clear and exciting.

If I didn’t have other transducers to compare them with I would have put the occasional harsh sound down to room issues or simply poor mastering. It turns out the speakers were to blame, but I can see how subjective reviews only can score products more highly than they deserve to be.
 
Also can anyone suggest me the root cause and treatment for why my system is skewed to right speakers? I tried adjusting my listening position to be the exact center and speakers placement but whenever I closed my eyes, the Soundstage is a bit skewed to the right. Attached picture is my listening room.
 

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Also can anyone suggest me the root cause and treatment for why my system is skewed to right speakers? I tried adjusting my listening position to be the exact center and speakers placement but whenever I closed my eyes, the Soundstage is a bit skewed to the right. Attached picture is my listening room.
Swap the cables to the speakers, what happens?

Have you measured the difference?

Does a balance control fix it consistently?

Have you tried swapping the speakers from side to side?
 
Also can anyone suggest me the root cause and treatment for why my system is skewed to right speakers? I tried adjusting my listening position to be the exact center and speakers placement but whenever I closed my eyes, the Soundstage is a bit skewed to the right. Attached picture is my listening room.
It looks like the left speaker is at a more angled position.

It's best to first place both speakers exactly parallel and try what @Soniclife wrote, first swap the cables and then the speakers. This will rule out any hardware problems.
 
Swap the cables to the speakers, what happens?

Have you measured the difference?

Does a balance control fix it consistently?

Have you tried swapping the speakers from side to side?
Thank you for your suggestion.

I tried swapping speakers from side to side and the system is still skewed to the right. Will try swapping speaker cables today.
Have you measured the difference? I had REW measure for each speakers and the in-room Frequency response do look different.
Does a balance control fix it consistently? I tried balance control on my receiver but when the vocal is dead center, bass or treble would be skewed to the left.

I have never tried placing both speakers exactly parallel, will try it today too.
 
Thank you for your suggestion.

I tried swapping speakers from side to side and the system is still skewed to the right. Will try swapping speaker cables today.
Have you measured the difference? I had REW measure for each speakers and the in-room Frequency response do look different.
Does a balance control fix it consistently? I tried balance control on my receiver but when the vocal is dead center, bass or treble would be skewed to the left.

I have never tried placing both speakers exactly parallel, will try it today too.
Starting to sound like the room is more reflective on one side than the other, finish the hardware tests but you probably need to EQ selective frequencies down.
 
Thank you for your suggestion.

I tried swapping speakers from side to side and the system is still skewed to the right. Will try swapping speaker cables today.
Have you measured the difference? I had REW measure for each speakers and the in-room Frequency response do look different.
Does a balance control fix it consistently? I tried balance control on my receiver but when the vocal is dead center, bass or treble would be skewed to the left.

I have never tried placing both speakers exactly parallel, will try it today too.
Just to make sure that you are not doing anything unnecessarily.

Swapping speaker cables means only swapping right and left on the speakers (don't swap them on the amplifier!). If the problem persists and doesn't move, it's not your devices or speaker cables.

When swapping speakers, you should mark the exact location on the floor to get the same positions.
Physically swapping the speakers (right cable stays right, ditto left) rules out a problem with the speakers.

Only if the problem doesn't move both times can you rule out a hardware problem and only then does a more detailed analysis make sense, otherwise everyone is just chasing unicorns here.

Then you should measure and mark the exact location of the speakers (adhesive tape, pencil, etc.), in the middle of the wall, right/left and listening position. First listen parallel and then again at an angle.
Please measure precisely with a ruler. I would place the speakers a little wider, the same distance from speaker to listening position and speaker to speaker.

Again, in the picture the left speaker is more angled and is further away from the wall. The measuring point for speakers is always the front baffle.

And finally, you would do yourself a favor by laying a carpet in the room that reaches at least from the speakers to the listening position and is wide to the outer edge of the speakers, or larger.
 
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