Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[Curvature]

Amir only uses one speaker, so don't forget to add 6db for a pair.

3dB.

 

[Zaireeka]

3dB.

Between 6 and 10dB actually...

Loudness volume doubling sound level change factor of perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities formula calculate power level noise levels volume logarithm dependence three four fold loudness sound - by what factor does level decrease

Dependance sound levels change factor perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities calculate power level formula noise volume doubling loudness volume - logarithm decibel 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 dB double voltage sound pressure acoustic power loudness sound audio formula relationship...

www.sengpielaudio.com

3dB is for power.

 

[Curvature]

Between 6 and 10dB actually...

Loudness volume doubling sound level change factor of perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities formula calculate power level noise levels volume logarithm dependence three four fold loudness sound - by what factor does level decrease

Dependance sound levels change factor perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities calculate power level formula noise volume doubling loudness volume - logarithm decibel 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 dB double voltage sound pressure acoustic power loudness sound audio formula relationship...

www.sengpielaudio.com

3dB is for power.

You're halving the power requirement for the same SPL with a second speaker, not doubling the output.

 

[Zaireeka]

I might get confused here indeed.

Double loudness = +10dB
Double sound pressure = +6dB
Double sources (or power) = +3dB

So with 2 sources I'll consume twice the power (+3dB) and get twice the sound pressure (+6dB SPL), correct?
According to : https://www.linkwitzlab.com/faq.htm#Q21

 

[abdo123]

You're halving the power requirement for the same SPL with a second speaker, not doubling the output.

You’re doing both. Actually. Which is why it’s 6dB.

 

[thewas]

In the bass where the 2 loudspeakers are mainly coherent sources it is theoretically 6 dB, above where they are incoherent theoretically 3 dB, in reality the measured values are between those limits.

Total dB level adding of coherent correlated sound sources combining decibels or SPL sound pressure level audio logarithmic decibel scale loudspeaker add signal noise levels incoherent noncoherentt - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

Total dB level adding of correlated coherent sound sources combining decibels or SPL sound pressure level audio logarithmic decibel scale loudspeaker add signal noise levels incoherent noncoherent - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

www.sengpielaudio.com

Total dB level adding of incoherent or noncoherent uncorrelated sound sources signals combine sound levels two sources resultant level audio logarithmic decibel scale decibels or SPL sound pressure level add signal noise levels noncoherent incoherent

Total dB level adding of uncorrelated incoherent noncoherent sound sources signals combine sound levels two sources resultant level audio logarithmic decibel scale decibels or SPL sound pressure level add signal noise levels incoherent random phase acoustic - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

www.sengpielaudio.com

 

[Curvature]

In the bass where the 2 loudspeakers are mainly coherent sources it is theoretically 6 dB, above where they are incoherent theoretically 3 dB, in reality the measured values are between those limits.

Total dB level adding of coherent correlated sound sources combining decibels or SPL sound pressure level audio logarithmic decibel scale loudspeaker add signal noise levels incoherent noncoherentt - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

Total dB level adding of correlated coherent sound sources combining decibels or SPL sound pressure level audio logarithmic decibel scale loudspeaker add signal noise levels incoherent noncoherent - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

www.sengpielaudio.com

Total dB level adding of incoherent or noncoherent uncorrelated sound sources signals combine sound levels two sources resultant level audio logarithmic decibel scale decibels or SPL sound pressure level add signal noise levels noncoherent incoherent

Total dB level adding of uncorrelated incoherent noncoherent sound sources signals combine sound levels two sources resultant level audio logarithmic decibel scale decibels or SPL sound pressure level add signal noise levels incoherent random phase acoustic - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudio

www.sengpielaudio.com

Thank you.

 

[Sancus]

I have read quite contradictory information on these speakers. On the one hand, Amir in this very review states that they are a bit SPL limited while Genelec considers them fine for listening at 2,5-3 meters at around 95 db (which is not exactly low). What do you guys think?

You can just look at the specs, they're accurate. The "long term max" spec is the <100hz bass average and the "short term max" spec is >100hz. For a single 8341A they are 101dB and 110dB in half space, so near a wall as Genelec recommends for all their speakers. If you are playing very low bass(<40hz) you will get less than 101dB, probably more like 90-95dB. Whether or not that meets your needs is up to you.

Genelecs don't do great(relative to similarly sized passives) on Amir's loudness test because they EQ the bass extension deeper with the assumption that, if you really want to play super loud, you'll get a subwoofer or high pass the sub bass. There are other actives that fall into the same "trap". Doing this makes the speaker better out of the box for normal use, however.

 

[Vacceo]

You can just look at the specs, they're accurate. The "long term max" spec is the <100hz bass average and the "short term max" spec is >100hz. For a single 8341A they are 101dB and 110dB in half space, so near a wall as Genelec recommends for all their speakers. If you are playing very low bass(<40hz) you will get less than 101dB, probably more like 90-95dB. Whether or not that meets your needs is up to you.

Genelecs don't do great(relative to similarly sized passives) on Amir's loudness test because they EQ the bass extension deeper with the assumption that, if you really want to play super loud, you'll get a subwoofer or high pass the sub bass. There are other actives that fall into the same "trap". Doing this makes the speaker better out of the box for normal use, however.

Thanks for the context! That really helps putting thing in perspective.

 

[srrxr71]

I’ve had these for almost a year at this point.

Everyone has a different goal and different situation.

I’m my old setup where they were about 5ft away they were loud enough.

In my new setup they are more like 9ft away. I like to listen sometimes at very high levels.

I realized that on some tracks the mids are the weakness. I can get these to clip. It’s not the bass usually which does but rather the mids. Of course I have subs to handle everything under 100Hz so that might be why the mids are the limit in my case. I even low shelved below 200hz +3dB to warm up the sound and also get some more SPL out of them by pushing the woofers more.

Playing even a mostly acoustic vocal track is more likely to clip at high volume than a bass heavy track. In fact I got my first orange light playing Rickie Lee Jones acoustic music.

Personally there are certain guitar riffs I’ve always wanted to listen to at ear blistering volumes. I would probably have to sit closer to have that childhood dream fulfilled.

These can do about 103dB at my listening position leaving some headroom. Technically that leaves about 6dB for headroom I suppose. Thankfully the clipping is inaudible. You just see the orange light and you know something is being limited. Given SPL is logarithmic the clipping or protection is not obvious. You might be just 0.2dB off and the light will come on. The power levels at that point are very high for each additional dB you need. Being professional tools the lights come on to alert you that what you are hearing is short of perfect accuracy. Which is necessary for a music professional but in a listening situation it’s fine as long as the lights are not on constantly. They blink during transients. Most of us are OCD enough to not appreciate those lights and while not very audible would prefer to go bigger to avoid ever seeing those lights.

In hindsight I would have gone for the 8351b. Just saying as an end game system why compromise for $2k? It’s been a lifelong journey and this is not the place to compromise if you may at any point use these as a midfield system.

I can get even this to cause orange lights to light up. I use this to also test for slap echo at higher levels apart from its obvious use to get your positioning perfect.

Just as an aside more toe in focuses the center image but sort of shrinks the center sound field. Less toe in widens the center 3 positions but defocuses the center image. I prefer tighter personally. You still hear the far left and far right as outside the speaker boundaries but the centered instruments sound tighter and actually more 3 dimensional as you realize they are centered but some are behind and some are in front.

The distance between my monitors is about 12 feet so this is pushing the use case for a pair of 8341s. If you think you may have that use case just go for the 8351b.

 

[NiagaraPete]

Without reading all 77 pages I think Amir should have used the GLM before rating this speaker.

 

[YSC]

I’ve had these for almost a year at this point.

Everyone has a different goal and different situation.

I’m my old setup where they were about 5ft away they were loud enough.

In my new setup they are more like 9ft away. I like to listen sometimes at very high levels.

I realized that on some tracks the mids are the weakness. I can get these to clip. It’s not the bass usually which does but rather the mids. Of course I have subs to handle everything under 100Hz so that might be why the mids are the limit in my case. I even low shelved below 200hz +3dB to warm up the sound and also get some more SPL out of them by pushing the woofers more.

Playing even a mostly acoustic vocal track is more likely to clip at high volume than a bass heavy track. In fact I got my first orange light playing Rickie Lee Jones acoustic music.

Personally there are certain guitar riffs I’ve always wanted to listen to at ear blistering volumes. I would probably have to sit closer to have that childhood dream fulfilled.

These can do about 103dB at my listening position leaving some headroom. Technically that leaves about 6dB for headroom I suppose. Thankfully the clipping is inaudible. You just see the orange light and you know something is being limited. Given SPL is logarithmic the clipping or protection is not obvious. You might be just 0.2dB off and the light will come on. The power levels at that point are very high for each additional dB you need. Being professional tools the lights come on to alert you that what you are hearing is short of perfect accuracy. Which is necessary for a music professional but in a listening situation it’s fine as long as the lights are not on constantly. They blink during transients. Most of us are OCD enough to not appreciate those lights and while not very audible would prefer to go bigger to avoid ever seeing those lights.

In hindsight I would have gone for the 8351b. Just saying as an end game system why compromise for $2k? It’s been a lifelong journey and this is not the place to compromise if you may at any point use these as a midfield system.

I can get even this to cause orange lights to light up. I use this to also test for slap echo at higher levels apart from its obvious use to get your positioning perfect.

Just as an aside more toe in focuses the center image but sort of shrinks the center sound field. Less toe in widens the center 3 positions but defocuses the center image. I prefer tighter personally. You still hear the far left and far right as outside the speaker boundaries but the centered instruments sound tighter and actually more 3 dimensional as you realize they are centered but some are behind and some are in front.

The distance between my monitors is about 12 feet so this is pushing the use case for a pair of 8341s. If you think you may have that use case just go for the 8351b.

at that distance the 8341 is obviously too small but I wonders if the mid driver is bigger on the 8351?and 103db seems like not friendly to being able toe hear music for longer IMO

 

[hege]

and 103db seems like not friendly to being able toe hear music for longer IMO

103dB is nothing special if it's mostly from low freqs, which I suspect is the case here. As always, take any "dB" with a grain of salt if you don't know how it was measured and with what parameters.

 

[Sancus]

at that distance the 8341 is obviously too small but I wonders if the mid driver is bigger on the 8351?and 103db seems like not friendly to being able toe hear music for longer IMO

Yeah, the 8351B has the same midrange and tweeter with the same power as the 8361A. Which will play close to 120dB @ 1m. The 8361A has more bass capability, of course.

 

[YSC]

103dB is nothing special if it's mostly from low freqs, which I suspect is the case here. As always, take any "dB" with a grain of salt if you don't know how it was measured and with what parameters.

I think he said he got subs to take over the bass sours the mid range clipping at 103db

 

[hege]

I think he said he got subs to take over the bass sours the mid range clipping at 103db

He said "103dB with headroom", which is quite unlikely if compared with the experiments I've done with 1032C. But I'll leave it up for @srrxr71 to explain how he got these figures if he wants.

Kind of pointless nitpicking anyway, it's clear these are not intended as loud mid-fielders.

 

[MBI]

If you can afford the 8361A, get it instead of the 8351 (for the bass), srrxr71.

 

[YSC]

He said "103dB with headroom", which is quite unlikely if compared with the experiments I've done with 1032C. But I'll leave it up for @srrxr71 to explain how he got these figures if he wants.

Kind of pointless nitpicking anyway, it's clear these are not intended as loud mid-fielders.

Agree it’s meaningless nitpicking, my intention at first was to wonder if at mid to far field if the 83x1 enough for loud SPL, the larger models exist for a reason. But anyway as someone sensitive to sound or loud sound, even concert level will drive me nuts so that’s irrelevant to me

 

[stunta]

I read a user review somewhere that said using the AES input provided a significant boost to the SPL versus the analog input. Has anyone tried this?

 

[srrxr71]

at that distance the 8341 is obviously too small but I wonders if the mid driver is bigger on the 8351?and 103db seems like not friendly to being able toe hear music for longer IMO

Yeah it’s not for long term listening. One would get a headache. I mean maybe if there is one track you just feel like blasting. The orange lights can turn on. Even maybe a red blink on occasion.


Also some songs are meant to be listened to at concert levels. Each mix has a level where the mix is intended to be listened to. If a mix is made to sound like people playing in your room (mostly live mixes) then you do need to level match to the intent of the mix ideally.