Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[MZKM]

Oh my god

Who replaced the usual directivity chart with a giant laser beam

Here’s the Dutch & Dutch 8C’s:

 

[Sancus]

I can't help but try to recommend my speakers to everyone. It seems they are shunned by both the audiophile and the objective measurments (ASR) community at large, just because they're JBL brand.

JBL Synthesis... too 'hifi' for us objectivists, yet also still too close to belonging to the Pro Audio/commercial/PA system heritage the brand is associated with. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

What is vertical directivity by the way? How does that equate to how it will sound in room? If the Genelics are better at that, what would sound better about them if I had them in my room to replace my JBL?

I don't think there's anything wrong with JBL 4367s at all. For me, I live in an 1100sqft apartment, and while of course sound quality is the first priority, I think the white Genelecs look much nicer and fit in better than the JBL M2/4367. And I have absolutely no desire for >100db SPLs, in fact my neighbours would be Very Upset if I attempted such levels.

Vertical directivity is just the pattern of sound dispersed vertically(up and down from the tweeter axis) as opposed to left/right. Ceiling/floor reflections will be of less concern, and as Amir mentioned in his review "So feel free to move left and right and up and down with the sound still being uniform." That's attractive to me, because I like to use my speakers when I'm not just sitting directly in front of them(they are in the main living space, not in a dedicated room).

These characteristics are obviously of no concern to many, but they are to some.

 

[Ilkless]

I don't think there's anything wrong with JBL 4367s at all. For me, I live in an 1100sqft apartment, and while of course sound quality is the first priority, I think the white Genelecs look much nicer and fit in better than the JBL M2/4367. And I have absolutely no desire for >100db SPLs, in fact my neighbours would be Very Upset if I attempted such levels.

Vertical directivity is just the pattern of sound dispersed vertically(up and down from the tweeter axis) as opposed to left/right. Ceiling/floor reflections will be of less concern, and as Amir mentioned in his review "So feel free to move left and right and up and down with the sound still being uniform." That's attractive to me, because I like to use my speakers when I'm not just sitting directly in front of them(they are in the main living space, not in a dedicated room).

These characteristics are obviously of no concern to many, but they are to some.

Yes, listening while standing and walking around is exactly why it's frustrating for me to find almost no active coaxials in the price range I want - more expensive and less compromised than the Kali IN-8, cheaper than the Genelec, less irrelevant lifestyle features to inflate BOM price and increase points of failure than the LS50W (also larger with more SPL ability). I want an R3 active ideally.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Great review. These speakers remind me of being an NFL owner who spends big money on a great team that plays well, but gets to the red zone and can’t score.

I like active speakers but not seeing any that makes me want to give up my more traditional setup. My wife (real estate appraiser) keeps asking why we can’t have something like the little Bose speakers she sees everywhere.

 

[MZKM]

My wife (real estate appraiser) keeps asking why we can’t have something like the little Bose speakers she sees everywhere.

I die a little inside every time I go to someone’s home and they have an Acoustimass setup (the one where each one is a dual rotatable speaker; like that doesn’t fuck up the surround sound imaging).

My uncle won a lawsuit so he got hundreds or thousands and totally renovated a new home and everything is so nice (damn oven and microwave have Wi-Fi), he wants a surround sound setup, and while I offered him some of my unused gear at a very cheap price, he declined; he’s probably going to spend >5000 on a system that is going to be so poor (he already has wired for the front left/right to be near-ceiling mounted in his ~15ft ceiling livingroom, and has plans for subwoofer on a ledge ~10ft up; the type of cut-out area near the kitchen or front-entrance where people put plants).

 

[napilopez]

What is vertical directivity by the way? How does that equate to how it will sound in room? If the Genelics are better at that, what would sound better about them if I had them in my room to replace my JBL?

While horizontal directivity contributes to both spaciousness and timbre/tonality, the primary perceptual effect of vertical directivity appears to be almost exclusively tonality.

A non-coaxial two-way will tend to have a dip in the vertical directivity that will show up in the power response and (to a lesser extent) the early reflections curve. Basically, if you see a big dip in one of these curves in a speaker with great horizontal directivity, it likely comes from the vertical component. usually this happens around the crossover region, which tends to be somewhere between 1.5K and 3K, so it might have the perceptual effect of slightly recessed upper mids, a region important for speech intelligibility. That said, you are less likely to hear such a flaw in a nearfield setup where you hear more direct sound than room sound.

 

[D700]

I've got cognitive dissonance with the advantage of these powered speakers with DSP and a reasonably priced pair of bookshelves and a run of the mill Denon AVR with Audyssey? If you're going to run this kind of "end state" test, might as well add tests for passive speakers in your reviews running from an amp with room correction.

I mean these speakers could be shit and the electronics are doing a bang up job...so maybe electronics could do a bang up job on some R-41Ms?

Where does "great speaker" diverge from "great electronics"? Or do we not care?

 

[napilopez]

I don't hear anything like that with my JBL, though. But maybe it's there and I have to hear a good coaxil to hear the difference. I had KEF LS50 setup in my room before, and I still think my JBL sound much better then those in the treble and midrange. As far as I know, there's no crossover dips on the 4367.

Which JBL is it, is there data available? Nevermind, my reading comprehension is off today. You said it right there =]

Don't get me wrong. Most multi-way speakers will show a dip, but usually it's fairly small and the direct sound is still perceptually very important. The Revel Salon2 has this dip and we all know how good it performs.

So, it's nice if you can fix it, but not the end of the world if it's there.

 

[andreasmaaan]

As far as I know, there's no crossover dips on the 4367.

There most definitely are, it's simply the physics of having two non-coincident drivers crossing over (so it's ofc something that is present in 90+ % of speakers). That's not to say it sounds bad ofc.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

If it's there my ears have gotten used to it, I guess. There a lot of other things I value over not having a dip anyway.

 

[napilopez]

I've got cognitive dissonance with the advantage of these powered speakers with DSP and a reasonably priced pair of bookshelves and a run of the mill Denon AVR with Audyssey? If you're going to run this kind of "end state" test, might as well add tests for passive speakers in your reviews running from an amp with room correction.

I mean these speakers could be shit and the electronics are doing a bang up job...so maybe electronics could do a bang up job on some R-41Ms?

Where does "great speaker" diverge from "great electronics"? Or do we not care?

It's all about the complete signal path. Building DSP into the speaker gives you lots of control over the crossover and frequency response. If there's a resonance in the cabinet, you can EQ it away. Then for all intents and purposes, it no longer exists. This might frustrate some purists, but it's a highly effective way of improving the quality of a speaker.

The reason the DSP in your AVR doesn't usually doesn't work is because we don't have extensive on and off axis anechoic data. For speakers. But with anechoic data such as that which Amir provides, all sorts of frequency response issues so long as directivity is in order. You cannot EQ directivity issues very well. You can EQ resonances. Which is why I personally always recommend speakers that have good directivity characteristics to enthusiasts willing to do some EQ.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I've got cognitive dissonance with the advantage of these powered speakers with DSP and a reasonably priced pair of bookshelves and a run of the mill Denon AVR with Audyssey? If you're going to run this kind of "end state" test, might as well add tests for passive speakers in your reviews running from an amp with room correction.

I mean these speakers could be shit and the electronics are doing a bang up job...so maybe electronics could do a bang up job on some R-41Ms?

Where does "great speaker" diverge from "great electronics"? Or do we not care?

In the end, the sound that comes out of the speaker is what you hear, so in that respect you shouldn't care.

But more specifically, aspects of the R-41M's performance just couldn't be cured with DSP to get them to near the level of this speaker.

The R-41Ms have a port tuning of around 70-80Hz, so no matter what you do, they won't do bass below that frequency without imploding.

Their off-axis response is far less smooth than this speaker, so EQing them for a flat response on axis (or to meet a desired in-room target response) would not give the same effect as with these Genelecs - the reflected sounds would just not cohere as well with the direct sound, especially in the vertical plain.

And nothing could cure that port leakage at around 1kHz, it will be there and it will be radiating 360° no matter what you do.

 

[andreasmaaan]

If it's there my ears have gotten used to it, I guess. There a lot of other things I value over not having a dip anyway.

Yep, those JBLs are a superb speaker.

 

[napilopez]

If it's there my ears have gotten used to it, I guess. There a lot of other things I value over not having a dip anyway.

You do get used to it, and also just checked and those JBLs have an unusually low crossover at 700Hz. I'd bet vertical flaws aren't as audible in this region.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yeah, there's the dip. Right around 800hz which is the crossover. I would really like to see the Genelics on the same kind of graph with the same x and y scale, to see how it compares. Or maybe the other way around.

View attachment 51488

I'm not so sure actually. From what I can tell, that's a graph of the on-axis response.

The dip resulting from the effect @napilopez and I described would only be present vertically off-axis.

 

[napilopez]

Found the spin for the 4367 @direstraitsfan98 and @andreasmaaan. Looks like quite the interesting speaker! You can see the expected dip at 700Hz, but it's not huge and not likely to be very audible given how low it is. More room interaction down here presumably and doesn't exacerbate the stereo interaural crosstalk dip.

 

[stunta]

Looks pretty straightforward to calibrate the speakers. Is this what SAM is all about or is there more to it? Non-SAM Genelec speakers are a lot cheaper.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Oh, okay. Wait a momentai. So if I didn't move from my seat, I wouldn't even hear this dip? Because that's how I listen to music. Sitting down in one spot... I understand people like to move around while listening to music, but that isnt how I do things.

There was actually a long discussion about this on the Elac Adante thread a couple of days ago IIRC. A dip like this obviously doesn't affect the direct sound that arrives at your ears if you're sitting directly in front of the speakers, but it does affect the first reflections off the floor and ceiling. Our perception of a speaker's tonal balance is influenced both by the direct sound and early reflections. But ofc it's not going to be anywhere near as audible as it would if the direct sound had a dip in it.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

There was actually a long discussion about this on the Elac Adante thread a couple of days ago IIRC. A dip like this obviously doesn't affect the direct sound that arrives at your ears if you're sitting directly in front of the speakers, but it does affect the first reflections off the floor and ceiling. Our perception of a speaker's tonal balance is influenced both by the direct sound and early reflections. But ofc it's not going to be anywhere near as audible as it would if the direct sound had a dip in it.

Thanks for explaining. I actually have less first point reflections with the JBL compared to standard baffle design speakers I've had, like my Harbeth 30.2, or KEF LS50. I suppose thats the horn at work.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

I think we need to see the Behringer truth now,, as it's a knockoff of an older genelec design, for peanuts.

I second that "need to see" -- they're similar in size and published specs to my current vintage JBLs, and I'm wondering if they're better enough to be given a go. Apparently, they're good enough to benefit from a swap to better/costlier components in their crossovers, at least according to Danny Richie.

Modifying the Behringer Truth -- is the upgrade worth the time and money?