Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[hardisj]

Goodness, those are some good measurements. But the THD below 100hz is saddening. I know you would generally use a sub but when you factor in price it makes me think there has got to be something that measures as well but can be used for farfield listening, or at least something cheaper with the same performance in nearfield situations. I look forward to seeing that come to light with future measurements and/or designs.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks for explaining. I actually have less first point reflections with the JBL compared to standard baffle design speakers I've had, like my Harbeth 30.2, or KEF LS50. I suppose thats the horn at work.

TBH, the horn is too narrow in the vertical plane to control directivity as low as 700Hz, but it will prevent a lot of the energy above 700Hz from hitting the floor and ceiling, which I'd speculate would reduce the perceptual effect of the dip in the reflected sound.

This is all getting very speculative though without seeing polar response measurements. All we can say for sure is that the average amplitude response of all the early reflections combined is approximately the upper red trace in the graph that @napilopez posted, above. And that looks reasonably smooth overall: the dip is clearly present, but it's not bad compared to most non-coaxial speakers, and as Napilopez mentioned, it's less likely to be audible at 700Hz than at a more typical frequency of 2000-3000Hz, where our ears are most sensitive.

 

[JIW]

edit: note also the vast improvement in max SPL around 50Hz - says a lot that the much smaller 8331 has significantly higher max SPL in that range than the first-gen 8351. Genelec have really refined the concept.

That may just be the due to port tuning. Below are the spectrograms. According to S&R, the -6dB point of the 8331 is 44 Hz while the -6dB point of the 8351 is 31 Hz.

 

[napilopez]

More on topic, Genelec published a paper on its coaxial design for the Ones. It's an interesting read:

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...änen/5a224c42da99408cdb741b55491a655626a3f0e4

 

[MediumRare]

And that is loudspeaker design at it’s finest folks. I cannot recommend them for home use either unless they’re being used in the “nearfield.” However, the 8351 and 8361 will do the job extremely well.

I die a little inside every time I go to someone’s home and they have an Acoustimass setup (the one where each one is a dual rotatable speaker; like that doesn’t fuck up the surround sound imaging).

Interesting, your uncle is facing a somewhat similar challenge as I am. I'm building a new house and would like speakers that don't sound like crap in three of the rooms. (I have a separate system for critical listening.)

So what could you recommend for passives that could hang on a wall (using a sub near the floor for each pair)? Cost is a factor as I have to buy three sets.

 

[beefkabob]

as Keyne’s has been given credit for saying. “When the facts change, I change my mind“. What do you do?

Kanye?

 

[StevenEleven]

Kanye?

Apparently erroneously attributed to John Maynard Keynes.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/22/keynes-change-mind/

My favorite quote from Keynes is, “The fact that all things are possible is no excuse for thinking foolishly,“ from his book, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, in which he essentially predicted World War II. He was a close friend of Bertrand Russell.

 

[astr0b0y]

So he didn’t say it?

 

[StevenEleven]

So he didn’t say it?

I guess read the link in my prior post for some researched information. It would appear not, but of course it’s possible, but as Keynes did most certainly write, the fact that all things are possible is no excuse for thinking foolishly. I don’t know any more than that.

It would appear to have been Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Samuelson in 1970 who spoke the first incarnation of the quote, apparently intentionally and effectively channeling the spirit of Keynes but not correctly quoting him.

Having read a decent amount of Keynes, I do recommend it. His writing is a superb combination of entertaining language, strong opinions, contrariness, and excellent critical thinking. Samuelson is not quite so animated in his writing.

 

[laudio]

We've had several samples of low cost performance, now the high bar is set on measurements. That said - those Genelecs at $6K are out of most peoples price range (and to me ugly). I'm waiting for the middle ground

 

[Doodski]

We've had several samples of low cost performance, now the high bar is set on measurements. That said - those Genelecs at $6K are out of most peoples price range (and to me ugly). I'm waiting for the middle ground

...and this review is accurate confirmation that @amirm has a properly calibrated and fully functional Klippel System.

 

[kaka89]

This would definitely show up in the measurements, since the Klippel system generates a 360° polar response.

However, my understanding of the Olive preference rating system is that a cardioid speaker's polar response, even if smooth, would be a liability, since the rating system prescribes downward-tilting off-axis responses.

Yes the cardio pattern will show in the pattern, but the “room coupled” features in 8c won’t show. (In 8c one need to provide the distance from the side and front wall) . Not sure does such feature worth anything when compares with a perfect speaker like The One

 

[laudio]

...and this review is accurate confirmation that @amirm has a properly calibrated and fully functional Klippel System.

Agree. As more speakers are measured in the middle there will be a nice comparsion. That's what I look for - something decent as an upgrade but at same time not get too crazy on price. The reviews here are a good service.

 

[dshreter]

I think it’s fantastic that the best performing speakers so far have a completely unconventional design and dramatically compact form factor. To me this says there is still plenty of innovation and progress to be made in the industry. And the fact that they’re small means when the technology trickles down, it just might be at a reasonable price.

There’s a ton of engineering packed into these bad boys and they’ve tried something new for the sake of performance instead of novelty.

 

[Doodski]

Agree. As more speakers are measured in the middle there will be a nice comparsion. That's what I look for - something decent as an upgrade but at same time not get too crazy on price. The reviews here are a good service.

For sure. I am getting a good education here in many ways.

 

[dshreter]

Yes the cardio pattern will show in the pattern, but the “room coupled” features in 8c won’t show. (In 8c one need to provide the distance from the side and front wall) . Not sure does such feature worth anything when compares with a perfect speaker like The One

It’s definitely still worth something, but needs to be compared in conjunction with Genelec’s room correction system. Even The One is still subject to the laws of physics in a real room.

 

[BYRTT]

0.5 points is not negligible, it adds a lot of error to the score… glad @amirm found and fixed the problem so we can have more accurate scores from now on

By the way @MZKM, where did you get the data? Can I get a zipfile? I want to add it to the Loudspeaker Explorer to compare directly and maybe experiment to see if it's possible to do something about the previous measurements. @amirm?

There is more than one difference in that measurement so it is not just the manifestation of this issue.

What exactly are the other differences / issues between the original and corrected measurements?.....

I wanted to speed up the measurements for the mic cage tests (after the review measurements were done without it) so checked the symmetrical option thinking it would half the measurement points. It did not. Instead it completely changed the density of them. This likely changes the wave expansion a bit making it better on one axis, and not so good in another. Until I run more controlled experiments, I won't know.

.....By subtracting the original Genelec data point SPL values from the corrected ones, you would arrive at a correction curve for the original measurements.....

We are talking couple of dB errors here. Any computation you make would have to know how close the mic was to the driver, the size of the driver, etc. As I said, you can just file off the tops of those little peaks and be there if you like.

I will emphasize again that we should not be so focused on small differences.

Here are correction added to all of them and think many will agree its a linear one that will benefitl all of them, by the way great thanks this new Genelec review amirn and if if you ask me @MZKM will get some work update preference rating list for all of them ...in dirty quick calibration filtered blues animation below they are:

001-a_JBL_305P_Mark_ii
001-b_JBL_Control_1_Pro (has not a released zip folder with spin data)
002_NHT_Pro_M-00 (has not a released zip folder with spin data)
003_Kali_Audio_IN-8
004_Revel_C52 (has not a released zip folder with spin data)
005_Yamaha_HS5
006_Neumann_KH_80 (sample 1)
007_JBL_One_Series_104
008_Harbeth_Monitor_30
009_KEF_LS50
010_Emotiva_Airmotiv_6s
011_Selah_Audio_RC3R
012_Micca_RB42
013_Realistic_MC-1000
014_Pioneer_SP-BS22-LR
015_Dayton_Audio_B652-AIR
016_ADAM_S2V_Studio_Monitor
017_Elac_Adante_AS-61
018_Klipsch_R-41M
019_Genelec_8341A_SAM

Animation is a 2 second toogle x3 one can see correction filter in the three missing Spinorama, 1) original review 2) amirm's new catch of Klippel hardware 3) microphone calibration added and btw @amirm could it be for SV2 and 8341A you have active used mic calibration and then kind of forgot about it .....

EDIT should it be case operator had used mic calibration for SV2 and 8341A and forgot detail about it then their animation is as below, same 2 second toogle x3 of 1) original review 2) amirm's new catch of Klippel hardware 3) microphone calibration added.

 

[soundwave76]

I have the 8340 and 8331 and I have a really hard time swallowing the complaint about these lacking power and volume. In a VERY large room/hall, with a really heavy bass track, listening REALLY loud... yes, maybe the red light might blink, but in normal home environments this should not be a problem at all. Lets hope @Ilkka Rissanen from Genelec will chime in.

Thanks a lot for this review!!

 

[thewas]

The polars also indicate directivity control to an unusually-low frequency for the baffle size (500Hz baffle step), courtesy of the slot loading.

Not really so different to the 8" Kali though, plots made by @edechamps great loudspeaker explorer:

 

[laudio]

I'd like to see a tear down on these guys... what class D amp do they use?