Monitors for a rather large room for listening and playing guitar

[pipapoh]

Hi,
I got a rather big room with acoustics I cant modify. The monitors will stand beside a big window about 3m apart.
I've sold my last good speakers (Geithain RL904) about 10years ago. They sounded phenomenal, but it was a small room and times were changeing.

Now I want a good set to listen music and play guitar. I thought about Neumann KH or Genelec - both with or without sub - never heard one.

The critical part is the size of the room I think? The room is high too - A shaped and about 5m at the highest point. About 300m³
Does something like "Neumann Monitor Alignment" help in this case?

Thank you!

 

[JaapD]

Hi, here is my view on your situation.

Due to the large room the reflections from the side walls and shaped roof should not easily cause disturbing cancellations and/or comb filtering effects. So you’ll mainly have a direct sound path from the monitors to your ears which is a good thing. The remaining point of attention, if any, will be the reflections caused by the floor. Since the listening distance is only 2,5m you don’t need that much power, unless you play very LOUD of course .

Does Neuman Monitor Alignment help? => because of the before mentioned ‘not having disturbing cancellations and/or comb filtering effects’ I presume the net benefit will be pretty small.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Do you mean playing electric guitar? Guitar players usually use the guitar amp as part of the instrument's voicing, which is at complete odds to music reproduction where you want an accurate speaker, etc etc. I recommend you don't use the same speakers for both purposes.

 

[Penelinfi]

Genelec 8381a

 

[vert]

Do you mean playing electric guitar? Guitar players usually use the guitar amp as part of the instrument's voicing, which is at complete odds to music reproduction where you want an accurate speaker, etc etc. I recommend you don't use the same speakers for both purposes.

Maybe he'll be using a digital system.

 

[pipapoh]

Yea, the hearing distance isnt big, but I dont know if the big, untreated area around me is a problem.
I'll use either a Helix stomp or a an interface conneted to a plugin at the pc for playing guitar.

 

[LTig]

Yea, the hearing distance isnt big, but I dont know if the big, untreated area around me is a problem.
I'll use either a Helix stomp or a an interface conneted to a plugin at the pc for playing guitar.

Do not use a regular studio monitor for playing an electric guitar. Chances are you fry the tweeter. Use a small guitar amp, they can handle this.

 

[Multicore]

Yea, the hearing distance isnt big, but I dont know if the big, untreated area around me is a problem.
I'll use either a Helix stomp or a an interface conneted to a plugin at the pc for playing guitar.

I would get good quality PA speakers, like Yamaha DZR10 or 12. The guitar will sound great through those up to a very high SPL and they are certainly good enough to enjoy music recordings. Two reasons. First, these speakers are perfect for gigging up to a modest auditorium size. Second, iiuc, the room you're in makes achieving high quality sound difficult so I would not likely go down the road of top-flight studio monitors e.g. Genelec.

Actually the other option is headphones which easily solve all your problems. I have an untreated room with a bass honk on A2 at 110Hz that really annoys me when I play electric guitar. Headphones fixes that. (I use Headrush Gigboard)

 

[Multicore]

Do not use a regular studio monitor for playing an electric guitar. Chances are you fry the tweeter. Use a small guitar amp, they can handle this.

When using the line output of an amp modeler into the audio interface it should be fine. That's equivalent of recording your guitar with amp modeller into the DAW and playing it back. Guitarists including me do both all the time in the studio.

Plugging a guitar head amp into passive speakers is a different matter but I don't think that's what OP is proposing.

 

[Steve Dallas]

As a Helix and S-Gear user since 2015, I can speak to this. I previously used a pair of Yamaha HS8M monitors to good effect. Capable of very high SPL for their size and accurate enough. I currently use a pair of passive KEF R3s with external amplification. These examples are for jamming and practice.

For recording, I use a MOTU M4 interface and Kali IN-5 monitors with Helix Native and S-Gear. You might consider the larger IN-8 version. Really, any of the Kali monitors would work well for your application.

 

[pipapoh]

I would get good quality PA speakers, like Yamaha DZR10 or 12. The guitar will sound great through those up to a very high SPL and they are certainly good enough to enjoy music recordings. Two reasons. First, these speakers are perfect for gigging up to a modest auditorium size. Second, iiuc, the room you're in makes achieving high quality sound difficult so I would not likely go down the road of top-flight studio monitors e.g. Genelec.

Actually the other option is headphones which easily solve all your problems. I have an untreated room with a bass honk on A2 at 110Hz that really annoys me when I play electric guitar. Headphones fixes that. (I use Headrush Gigboard)

Thank you for your response. In fact, I will playing the guitar more than listening to music. So what its like to listen to music through frfr like a Fender 112, Headrush 112 (108 in your case) or an DZR? I didnt tought about that route, but with bad acoustics anyway...

As a Helix and S-Gear user since 2015, I can speak to this. I previously used a pair of Yamaha HS8M monitors to good effect. Capable of very high SPL for their size and accurate enough. I currently use a pair of passive KEF R3s with external amplification. These examples are for jamming and practice.

For recording, I use a MOTU M4 interface and Kali IN-5 monitors with Helix Native and S-Gear. You might consider the larger IN-8 version. Really, any of the Kali monitors would work well for your application.

Thats a very helpful response, thank you. I didnt thought about anything else than Neumann/Genelec cause of the lack of alignment via mic.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Thats a very helpful response, thank you. I didnt thought about anything else than Neumann/Genelec cause of the lack of alignment via mic.

Neumann and Genelec are excellent choices as well, and the built-in DRC could be very valuable in your application. It is nearly impossible to go wrong with those brands. Just make sure the max SPL will meet your needs. I like to practice louder than I record and mix, so you may want to build in some extra headroom.

Back to DRC... In my case, I have licenses for Dirac Standalone and use it in both situations. There is a standalone Virtual Audio Device that I use on the PC with the Helix hardware and a VST plugin I use on the Main bus in my DAW on my recording PC.

 

[Multicore]

Thank you for your response. In fact, I will playing the guitar more than listening to music. So what its like to listen to music through frfr like a Fender 112, Headrush 112 (108 in your case) or an DZR? I didnt tought about that route, but with bad acoustics anyway...

Dunno about the Fender. The Headrush works but isn't a high-quality product. It sounds good enough for electric guitar and the price is excellent. For better sound quality, bass extension, and robust build you can move up the tiers of PA gear, let's call them: budget, good, excellent.

What is now being sold to guitarists as FRFR is pretty much the same as the already well-established product class of the portable powered PA speaker. So electric guitarists can use PA gear with a modeler very effectively. And for that the budget gear will work well enough. But if you want the same speakers to do other things like play acoustic guitar, synth (I use also Boss SY-1000), or general recorded music with good quality then you might consider moving up the tiers.

Neumann and Genelec studio monitors are great and I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying them. But if you want double duty and can compromise a bit on the SQ then for the price of those you can get top models in the excellent tier of PA gear that will perhaps satisfy for the music and will offer greater SPL and physical design, connectivity and features more suitable for gigging.

There are other ways to implement room EQ, although the Genelec implementation is especially desirable and well supported, going on what I read here. Good quality PA speakers, like studio monitors, have sophisticated driver and enclosure compensation EQ out of the box. We had a thread about that recently.

 

[nine9one]

I went through a ton of different options in this situation (well, not the exact size room, but monitoring for listening and modeling) and found that good studio monitors was by far my favorite. My whole reason for using modeling was being in an apartment and having volume restrictions, and I didn't think FRFRs sounded any good unless they were just as loud as an amp would have been. I ended up with a pair of Adam S1Xs that I was very happy with for a long time. I ran TV/streaming/and modeler through a standard mixer and loved the results. I have the same setup now with 8531Bs, which I am even happier with on both ends (listening and for modeling). There's way more than enough volume (as the Adams also provided), but they also sound great at nighttime listening levels. And subjectively, I like how they respond to IRs better than FRFRs. I'm a '90s death metal player at heart, so I still prefer my VH140C to modeling, and being solid state it actually sounds good (if that's the sound you like hahah) quiet, but good monitors are what finally sold me on modeling.

 

[Ron Texas]

Why not use a Guitar amp for the guitar? I would not limit choices to active studio monitors. There are many good passive speakers on the market. On the active side the JBL 708P was mentioned. It has been reviewed favorably here. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/jbl-708p-review-professional-monitor.20006/
In a large room the main thing one has to watch out for with active monitors is having enough output.

 

[Multicore]

I went through a ton of different options in this situation (well, not the exact size room, but monitoring for listening and modeling) and found that good studio monitors was by far my favorite. My whole reason for using modeling was being in an apartment and having volume restrictions

At home I play through Genelec 1029A or headphones. It's entirely sufficient since I can't play loud here either.

and I didn't think FRFRs sounded any good

What did you try? Top tier powered PA boxes are pretty good and way better than budget FRFR or the stuff marketed to guitarists.

 

[nine9one]

At home I play through Genelec 1029A or headphones. It's entirely sufficient since I can't play loud here either.


What did you try? Top tier powered PA boxes are pretty good and way better than budget FRFR or the stuff marketed to guitarists.

The first FRFR was some JBL PA speaker that was recommended to me, but I can't remember the model. I thought it was decent but wanted something "better," so I got the Friedman ASM-12—obviously one marketed towards guitarists. I thought it was really good actually and probably the most like having an amp "in the room" with cabs/IRs turned off, but it just had to be way too loud before I liked how it sounded, which defeated my whole purpose.

 

[Multicore]

I thought it was decent but wanted something "better," so I got the Friedman ASM-12—obviously one marketed towards guitarists. I thought it was really good actually and probably the most like having an amp "in the room" with cabs/IRs turned off, but it just had to be way too loud before I liked how it sounded, which defeated my whole purpose.

Yes. That's not getting the benefits of the tech. And for the price of the ASM-12 you've got some good choices in PA gear.

When I got started with the Gigboard I spent hours with headphones on looking for settings and I ended up with basically one amp model and speaker/cab IR that I've used ever since. I've never had a happy relationship with guitar amps and used effects to get sounds I wanted with linear amps. It's just the way it worked out for me since decades ago. So this solution with the Gigboard was, for me, a step forwards. It sounds good to me on anything I've played it through. I didn't have a certain indescribable something that I've been used to all along that I can't do without.

But I get that it isn't for everyone. Imagine someone like Caspar Brötzmann transitioning to modeling and linear amplification. I wouldn't know where to start.