Full Range Speakers, under $5k

[Krunok]

I wasn’t worrying about them lasting, I was wondering if it was worth “upgrading” them to a better quality of the same numerical value part/parts?

If I could get replacement assembled crossovers or blank boards and make an upgraded board, then I could swap the assembly back to original if needed.

Just curious.

Chris

You won't get any audible difference by swapping them.

 

[mitchco]

Do you have one for your LS 50s, and how does it look?

No I don't, but the raw data exists: https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/Directivity/KEF LS50/index.html
Folks have modded the passive XO to reduce the slight excess energy around 2.5 kHz.

 

[maty]

Even if this is off topic, I find time delay to be interesting. Is it possible to apply the delay to a particular frequency (over 100hz) to time align a sub with the mains or does the sub have to be on a different channel? It wouldn't make sense to delay everything.

 

[JeffS7444]

I don't know, but if I had the space, I'd really really want to try a set of these on for size:
https://www.jbl.com/home-audio/STUDIO+590.html

 

[Vintage57]

If I'm buying used speakers, and some random dude tells me he messed with the crossover, I'm asking for a deeper discount.

Maybe some buyers feel differently, but I suspect most feel the same.

I would pass, as I would on a modified car or bike.

 

[Ron Texas]

@maty I can see how to do that, but on my system the sub is on the same channels as the mains so everything gets delayed. I just did some measurements with REW and found my system was within a few inches of being time aligned, so I move some stuff around and voila, delays are under 25mm. I move my head around more than that.

 

[Ron Texas]

I would pass, as I would on a modified car or bike.

Agree with you there. However, you will find many owners of modded cars save the original parts, undo the mods before sale and sell the parts separately. They don't care about the labor because it's DIY and a hobby. Whoever buys the car gets something which has been tracked, over-boosted, and not necessarily reassembled right. It's a serious problem with certain models (mainlly turbocharged sporty cars) and pulls down the value of all cars of that type because at auction buyers have to factor this risk in. You can see mods sold proclaiming, "no permanent alterations".

With some inexpensive speakers I can see it making a difference. As prices go up, the difference in SQ has likely been dialed in. What I think might make a more meaningful change is to bypass the crossovers entirely and bi or tri amp (much harder) the speaker. That's not so hard to reverse.

 

[Vintage57]

Ron, would you put the amplifier budget into the equation and consider actives?

 

[Ron Texas]

Ron, would you put the amplifier budget into the equation and consider actives?

My feeling about actives is at the low end they offer outstanding values. The problem is most of them are designed for studio use and don't fit in well in the home. As the prices go up (I see $1500 for 2 as the threshold) the serviceability issue looms large. If a $200 JBL breaks I could throw it away and buy another one. That's not possible with a $3000 Genelec.

 

[Vintage57]

My feeling about actives is at the low end they offer outstanding values. The problem is most of them are designed for studio use and don't fit in well in the home. As the prices go up (I see $1500 for 2 as the threshold) the serviceability issue looms large. If a $200 JBL breaks I could throw it away and buy another one. That's not possible with a $3000 Genelec.

I’ve been fortunate I guess. Breakdowns have not been an issue in the past 40 years. Other than tweeters blowing in my Salon 1’s (quickly replaced by Kevin Vokes). My history of actives Paradigms, Meyer Sound, ATC and now Neumann has been the same.
The ATC I’ve in my 5.2 have been running for 15 years.
YMMV

 

[Ron Texas]

I’ve been fortunate I guess. Breakdowns have not been an issue in the past 40 years. Other than tweeters blowing in my Salon 1’s (quickly replaced by Kevin Vokes. My history of actives Paradigms, Meyer Sound, ATC and now Neumann has been the same.
The ATC I’ve in my 5.2 have been running for 15 years.
YMMV

I've had more than my share of blown tweeters. I used to have this B&K amp which probably had something wrong with it because it was always the tweeter on the right side which blew, and it happened multiple times.

 

[Vintage57]

I've had more than my share of blown tweeters. I used to have this B&K amp which probably had something wrong with it because it was always the tweeter on the right side which blew, and it happened multiple times.

Brings up a good point. I wonder how many have had drivers blow due to amplifier mismatch?

Not likely to happen with actives, I would guess.

 

[monkeyboy]

Actives are industrial gear, replacement parts should be easy to obtain.

 

[Ron Texas]

Actives are industrial gear, replacement parts should be easy to obtain.

For the more popular ones, yes.

 

[Bmoze]

Earlier in this thread Music1969 suggested Goldenear Triton 2+ speakers. I have those. I moved to them from B&W 805 (1st version) with a Velodyne sub. Much better overall, to my ears. I also have Focal Alpha 65 active monitors in my home office, supplemented with that old Velodyne sub. It sounds really nice, but the Goldenears are more refined bottom to top and better suited to our vaulted living room. My criteria for buying speakers was that I wanted to hear them in my home before committing. I didn’t want to do mail order because these floorstanders are a pain to box and return. We have one higher end stereo store in Boise. Luckily, it carries B&W, Revel, Focal, and Goldenear. Wanted something different from B&W. I thought the Focals were too bright. I liked the Revels. Many don’t like the styling of the Goldenears, but I do. It is a better match for my 25 watt tube amp. My critique is that the mid bass, on some recordings, is sometimes less defined than I want (I play electric bass and I’m picky about it). Only some recordings and Roon DSP addresses most of this issue for me. I listen to a lot of jazz and acoustic bass sound very good, overall. I think the Heil tweeters are just right and vocals (Diana Krall, for example) spot on.

I’m looking at speakers again and I think it will come down to Revels or the newer Goldenear 1.R.

 

[jonfitch]

I think the Revels will be tough to beat if your $5K limit is firm. They sound a lot like Salon2s, but can't go as loud or quite as deep.

They are a giant killer value at $5k.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/revel-trifecta

It looks like the F208 actually outperformed the older Studio2 ($16,000) in Harman's internal listening tests.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It looks like the F208 actually outperformed the older Studio2 ($16,000) in Harman's internal listening tests.

Do you have a link or reference to that?

 

[blueone]

They are a giant killer value at $5k.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/revel-trifecta

It looks like the F208 actually outperformed the older Studio2 ($16,000) in Harman's internal listening tests.

I read that, but Harman's tests are monophonic (one speaker only). IMO, the Ultima2 speakers really shine in stereo imaging compared to the Performa3 models. Properly positioned in the right room both the Studio2 and the Salon2 throw rather remarkably 3D and realistic images. I heard the F208s in peoples' homes twice, and I perhaps it was simply due to less than optimal rooms or placement, but I didn't hear the imaging magic with F208s (my CDs). In fact, the more I think about it, the two F208 systems were HT setups, so there was a big LCD display between the speakers. Perhaps the F208 is as good as the more expensive stuff, and the room and the placement factors were hindering them.

 

[blueone]

Do you have a link or reference to that?

See the link in post 116.

 

[amirm]

It looks like the F208 actually outperformed the older Studio2 ($16,000) in Harman's internal listening tests.

What is reported there is a single person's score, not any kind of formal testing by Harman (which includes more listeners). Kevin as he mentions there, tells me there is a large gap in performance there that was not noticed.