Focal Celestee Review (Headphone)

[respice finem]

The RME, if I'm not mistaken, can EQ channels separately, with "Dual EQ"...

It can, but too few frequency bands, it's rather "shelving-style" EQ - thus I'm EQing my BD T1 via foobar2000.

 

[solderdude]

So I assume you didn't get it to hit Xmax like you managed to do with the Clear?

The Celestee being closed will have much better damping for larger excursions than the open versions. I would expect Focal to improve on the drivers in that aspect anyway.

 

[MayaTlab]

Proper sealing is very important in closed-back headphones, but here, perhaps it's a driver mismatch issue? I also suspected a bad seal initially, but if Amir had double-checked this, no... Or maybe a slight difference in the internal damping, these things are so small that millimeters can matter.
Another interesting aspect for me, a closed-back with really low distortion, I used to think closed-back headphones tend to have higher distortion than open ones.

Like most closed backs the Focals are vented (the grill behind the logo is the outside vent) and perhaps that's where, if the pads aren't the culprit, there may have been a manufacturing defect.

 

[respice finem]

Possible. So, technically they are semi-closed, so to speak?

 

[Nango]

Regarding channel imbalances:
Don't for a single moment think that the same imbalance between drivers is nor will be present in any other Celestee. It will be different for each Celestee and differ from a test rig and someone's ears as well.
One should not see the plots as representative for the model except in the grand scheme of things.

Some brands do better in L-R imbalance of drivers than others.

But other mfr hand-pick the drivers and match these before they go into end production. Focal seems saved these costs.

 

[respice finem]

But other mfr hand-pick the drivers and match these before they go into end production. Focal seems saved these costs.

Or something happened on the way maybe?

 

[solderdude]

Possible. So, technically they are semi-closed, so to speak?

A truly closed headphone does not exist. There always has to be a way for air pressure to equalize on both sides of the driver otherwise the membrane would change offset depending on the air pressure (become a barometer).
Besides, those holes are often essential to improve subbass response and are used for tuning. Sometimes this even goes pear-shaped due to wire/cable entries on one or both sides.

 

[MayaTlab]

Possible. So, technically they are semi-closed, so to speak?

This is semantic but the vents / ports (I'll leave the actual engineers to debate what to call these) are common on "closed" backs. I think that the main distinction to make is that these vents / ports are critically acoustically tuned by varying their shape, filters, etc. to modulate the bass response, and often quite small, so very much completely unlike fully open headphones.

Most ANC headphones are vented as well, and given that their job n°1 is to isolate from outside noises, I still think that they'd qualify for the "closed" label .

 

[solderdude]

But other mfr hand-pick the drivers and match these before they go into end production. Focal seems saved these costs.

I measured the Elear, Utopia and Clear. Both Elear and Utopia had near perfect channel matching yet the Clear was substantially 'off'.
Cost saving ? quality control ? I can only make a guess.

 

[PeteL]

A truly closed headphone does not exist. There always has to be a way for air pressure to equalize on both sides of the driver otherwise the membrane would change offset depending on the air pressure (become a barometer).
Besides, those holes are often essential to improve subbass response and are used for tuning. Sometimes this even goes pear-shaped due to wire/cable entries on one or both sides.

Out of curiosity, how does sealed speakers avoid this?
I’m sure that stuff like this is quite truly closed
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002GZLY2...B0002GZLY2&tag=headphonesa03-20&creative=9325

 

[respice finem]

Probably, to avoid the "barometer effect", a very small vent will suffice, since outside air pressure doesn't change abruptly. Small enough not to hear it operating.

 

[solderdude]

Out of curiosity, how does sealed speakers avoid this?
I’m sure that stuff like this is quite truly closed
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002GZLY2...B0002GZLY2&tag=headphonesa03-20&creative=9325

It can be done (and often is) by having either a small hole in the baffle or they have a 'paper covered' vent in there.
This way outside air pressure is equal to the air pressure in front of the driver. That small hole in the driver can be < 1mm and have no sonic consequence but air pressure variances (these are fairly slow over time) are equalized.

 

[milosz]

"Sealed" speakers are never completely sealed. Always some little leaks.

 

[respice finem]

If I were to design such a speaker (disclaimer: I never did), I would prefer a calculated vent rather than relying on imperfection. If this "imperfection attitude" went too far, the speaker probably would "oomph" in the bass
On the other hand, when I look at my sealed speakers, I can't really see a vent...

 

[PeteL]

I actually like those kind of conclusions, like, I’m not fully sure what’s wrong, but doesn’t put a smile on my face. It should tell us all that there is still room for more data for science to fully assess performance, and also that taste is still a thing and it’s ok to trust it, this hobby s still about enjoyment.

It’s two strikes for expensive focals now. and with some admittance that “conclusion is not without reservation”. Truth is, we are, I believe, all a bit biased, even the most objectivists.

Me personally, I don’t buy Uber expensive headphones, but my Focal Elex was always for me the “correct” headphone. It has a frequency response quite close to the Clear. Still lately it got less and less listening hours.

Now I do have other stuff that I like, my fostex TH-X00, get’s quite a bit of time on my head, even tough, I tought it’s slightly boomy, but it’s not just about the bass, I really like the Grados sr325 tonality, where it’s bass thin. Begs the question is “tonality” and frequency response fully synonymous?

In fact, could there be something about paper drivers? Both those sets of cans use paper, still their response are quite different. Focal use metal drivers. But what about that if it doesn’t show, at least not clearly, in a frequency response graph?

 

[PeteL]

If I were to design such a speaker (disclaimer: I never did), I would prefer a calculated vent rather than relying on imperfection. If this "imperfection attitde" went too far, the speaker probably would "oomph" in the bass
On the other hand, when I look at my sealed speakers, I can't really see a vent...

Actually I almost deleted my comment, but Idid see vents even on the the headphones specifically for hardcore isolation. Now for speakers... I’m no expert, but intuitively... the back is sealed, but the front is open, Is it fair to think that the idea of pressure problem is not only the back being closed, but also that it seals to your skull?

 

[respice finem]

#56: The real FR (at the eardrums) may be different than measured due to the size, form, and angle of the earlobes, as well as the size and form of the external ear canal, which all widely vary. It certainly may alter other acoustic factors as well. That's IMHO why there will never be a "one size fits all" headphone EQ, unless one day we will able to measure this individual response.

 

[milosz]

Sealed-box (i.e., acoustic suspension) speakers are sealed well enough that the trapped air works as a spring for compression and rarefaction created by the moving driver cones at audio frequencies, but since it would be very expensive to actually make the "sealed" speaker totally gas tight, there's enough tiny leaks so that very slow changes in pressure like those resulting from weather are equalized. If this were not true, sealed speakers would explode when used in mountain locations. Think about it.

 

[respice finem]

Actually I almost deleted my comment, but Idid see vents even on the the headphones specifically for hardcore isolation. Now for speakers... I’m no expert, but intuitively... the back is sealed, but the front is open, Is it fair to think that the idea of pressure problem is not only the back being closed, but also that it seals to your skull?

I guess I don't get it... Speaking of my sealed Neumann KH310 A, all seems sealed very well.

 

[respice finem]

Sealed-box (i.e., acoustic suspension) speakers are sealed well enough that the trapped air works as a spring for compression and rarefaction created by the moving driver cones at audio frequencies, but since it would be very expensive to actually make the "sealed" speaker totally gas tight, there's enough tiny leaks so that very slow changes in pressure like those resulting from weather are equalized. If this were not true, sealed speakers would explode when used in mountain locations. Think about it.

Sure. Maybe not explode but certainly push the bass drivers out a bit. Similarly, old waterproof watches tended to lose their glass in Himalaya conditions... So probably these leaks are so negligible for these speakers function, that they need not be calculated in any way? Interesting, but if it works...