And some of us may even want a manual transmission in our manual car. We must be the true deviants.
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First turntable - any suggestions?
And some of us may even want a manual transmission in our manual car. We must be the true deviants.
Secondhand Technics 1210
Galliardist
Major Contributor
So, you're going to get a turntable.
You need to be told a few things by someone who would say "don't do it".
First, go and listen to some before buying. Seriously, if you can't stand the noise, the clicks and pops, the potentially odd sound, that's the time not to do it. Get beyond that stage and like it? Well, why not.
But....
You have to consider everything about feeding one.
Firstly, you will need the turntable, arm, cartridge and a way to do the RIAA equalisation (that can be computer software if you have a computer in your system) and the input to everything. It seems you've considered all that already.
Next, you will need the things to keep records clean. In my day, I had an antistatic brush and a shop with a wet cleaner 70 miles away for the bad cases. These days you may have your own antistatic cleaner of some kind. It's got to be done and done properly though,
Then you need a way to clean the stylus periodically as well. And the tools to check the setup, which depend on the model you buy.
You need a decent support for the turntable which depends on the type you buy, again. Some turntables are more forgiving than others when it comes to footfalls and feedback. I've had a few unpleasant surprises from people who think they can dump an old Rega 2 or 3 on the same TV stand as their speakers and think the sound is "wonderful".
And you end up feeding the thing. A new LP costs more than a month's streaming, and they take up space as well. If you like playing them, half a dozen won't do. It's a money sink.
Finally, unlike most of what we discuss here, good turntables will cost more, because they are mechanical engineering and that is more expensive than your average op-amp. You can still fall down audiophile rabbit holes just as easily, as well. If you buy a turntable, be very very careful when the inevitable upgrade comes up. You can spend a lot on bad sound just like with everything else.
So, you're now warned.
My choice would be a lightly used Linn Axis if you can find such a thing this long after they went out of production, or a recent Technics. Different technologies, but they don't require regular suspension adjustment and work reasonably well on a wider range of furniture compared to most of the others.
Actually, my choice was and remains to keep very far away from vinyl, but if you have to go there, take the easiest way in.
You need to be told a few things by someone who would say "don't do it".
First, go and listen to some before buying. Seriously, if you can't stand the noise, the clicks and pops, the potentially odd sound, that's the time not to do it. Get beyond that stage and like it? Well, why not.
But....
You have to consider everything about feeding one.
Firstly, you will need the turntable, arm, cartridge and a way to do the RIAA equalisation (that can be computer software if you have a computer in your system) and the input to everything. It seems you've considered all that already.
Next, you will need the things to keep records clean. In my day, I had an antistatic brush and a shop with a wet cleaner 70 miles away for the bad cases. These days you may have your own antistatic cleaner of some kind. It's got to be done and done properly though,
Then you need a way to clean the stylus periodically as well. And the tools to check the setup, which depend on the model you buy.
You need a decent support for the turntable which depends on the type you buy, again. Some turntables are more forgiving than others when it comes to footfalls and feedback. I've had a few unpleasant surprises from people who think they can dump an old Rega 2 or 3 on the same TV stand as their speakers and think the sound is "wonderful".
And you end up feeding the thing. A new LP costs more than a month's streaming, and they take up space as well. If you like playing them, half a dozen won't do. It's a money sink.
Finally, unlike most of what we discuss here, good turntables will cost more, because they are mechanical engineering and that is more expensive than your average op-amp. You can still fall down audiophile rabbit holes just as easily, as well. If you buy a turntable, be very very careful when the inevitable upgrade comes up. You can spend a lot on bad sound just like with everything else.
So, you're now warned.
My choice would be a lightly used Linn Axis if you can find such a thing this long after they went out of production, or a recent Technics. Different technologies, but they don't require regular suspension adjustment and work reasonably well on a wider range of furniture compared to most of the others.
Actually, my choice was and remains to keep very far away from vinyl, but if you have to go there, take the easiest way in.
mhardy6647
Grand Contributor
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An ever-harder thing to acquire. I bought a Subaru Crosstrek in late 2018 because it was still available with a manual transmission and a decent level of trim.
Maybe the hipsters'll bring back manuals like they brought back vinyls.
(I guess they'll be in electric vehicles, so that'll be interesting.)
Maybe the hipsters'll bring back manuals like they brought back vinyls.
(I guess they'll be in electric vehicles, so that'll be interesting.)
Until that happens, I figure the manual transmission in my car is a pretty effective anti-theft device.
Apesbrain
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Simple, good sound within your budget: AT-LP120XUSB or AT-LP5X. Easy assembly and setup. Plenty of reviews online. Available just about anywhere.
Both have onboard phono pre-amp so they can directly feed your MOTU via standard analog RCA interconnect (included) using adapters (not included) or connect to your PC via USB cable (included).
When setting up your new listening area keep in mind that your turntable will need a solid, level surface free from vibration, i.e. not the same surface as your speakers. Spend some money on an effective record brush.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
| Wow and Flutter | < 0.2% WRMS (33 RPM) at 3 kHz |
|---|---|
| Signal-to-Noise Ratio | > 50 dB |
I don't find the technical data of these AT players good enough for hi-fi. I would always aim for about 70dB S/N in a turntable, and also a slightly better wow and flutter. By the way, the AT-LP120 - an older model years ago - was the only DD ever where I heard motor noise when I went close to it with my ear. Apart from the muffled sound related to the built-in interface. I wouldn't go lower than with the Pioneer PLX 1000, for example.
I own a PLX-1000; it’s a great table but more than 500 euros. It also has no phono preamp. The PLX-500 looks similar with less weight but has an included cartridge and embedded phono preamp for less money. It has good reviews online, but I’ve never used that model. It’s very similar to the AT-LP120USB.
Additionally, you make sure you have a good, clearly marked ruler to insure proper “overhang” of the cartridge per the instructions. An alignment gauge is preferred, but not required when starting out.
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computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
... but the technical data are worse - not good enough for hifi, imo.
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
... and right here is the attraction of vinyl, and the problem! There's no rabbit hole to fall into, it's an entire warren! You can go mad with the options and with arbitrary definition of "hi-fi"
From what the OP said - just get something new, decent, built-in phono (as long as you can switch it out) and with the option to change the cartridge later. Spend less than £500, good options around £300.
Sounds like the Rega P1+ is out (phono not switchable). Pro-ject Carbon Phono is a good alternative aesthetically and sonically.
Audio Technica AT LP120 if you want the Technics look.
Unpack, plug in ... boom ... vinyl playing at a perfectly good quality (really, very good).
Spend £150 later on a cartridge/stylus if you find you are using your TT.
Six months later, if you find your vinyl collection is growing then dive into all the great suggestions here.
Enjoy
There's no rabbit hole to fall into, it's an entire warren! You can go mad with the options and with arbitrary definition of "hi-fi"From what the OP said - just get something new, decent, built-in phono (as long as you can switch it out) and with the option to change the cartridge later. Spend less than £500, good options around £300.
Sounds like the Rega P1+ is out (phono not switchable). Pro-ject Carbon Phono is a good alternative aesthetically and sonically.
Audio Technica AT LP120 if you want the Technics look.
Unpack, plug in ... boom ... vinyl playing at a perfectly good quality (really, very good).
Spend £150 later on a cartridge/stylus if you find you are using your TT.
Six months later, if you find your vinyl collection is growing then dive into all the great suggestions here.
Enjoy
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
Strange, I would have thought that especially with ASR, more attention is paid to good technical data.
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JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I do agree with that.
However, there is also a pragmatic approach that takes into account the inherent disadvantages of vinyl as a medium.
My view, my opinion, is that people like the OP who want to try out vinyl should do that. The fine tuning and adjusting tweaks that many suggest here are for enthusiasts - which the OP may well become (but isn't yet).
An improvement in TT measurements will never compensate for the loss of quality we face when playing a record instead of streaming a decent digital file. The technical data supports this view.
I enjoy playing records, I'm impressed with the sound I get ... I'm happy to stop here. Many others, OP included, may want to take their vinyl systems further but it's hard to know that until you've played a few records.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
There is an old German saying: "Buy cheap, buy twice."
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I also agree with that saying and that philosophy.
The TT's we're talking about are inexpensive, not cheap - big difference. They will last decades with a little care. My last Rega (Planar 2, equivalent of a P2 now) was playing well at 20+yo when I decided to give up vinyl and sold it. (I changed my mind later)
The TT you are talking about is better, no argument but it's more expensive, needs a phono amp and there are risks buying used plus it will probably need a new stylus... it's a different category.
Buyer's choice, both valid options.
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My own goals with vinyl today are to have a bit of fun, but not it take over my life (unless I want to!) Because I’m all too well aware that no matter how much $ I spend on vinyl playback, fidelity is limited, and many faults are “baked into” the record, like pre-echo, and inner groove distortion caused by lower linear velocities there.
Yes, today’s pressings can be expensive, so by all means choose a setup which won’t cause undue wear and tear. But accomplishing that could be as simple as replacing a sapphire stylus with a much longer-lived diamond, and replacing before it’s really worn-out.
I like the Audio Technica LP120USB alright - it’s a lot of turntable for the money. Don’t let the impressive heft fool you: It’s mostly made of plastic, and its motor has nowhere near the torque of an SL1200. And yet, it works pretty good. Main gripe is that, like most conventional turntables, it demands a dedicated space near the rest of the system.
Yes, today’s pressings can be expensive, so by all means choose a setup which won’t cause undue wear and tear. But accomplishing that could be as simple as replacing a sapphire stylus with a much longer-lived diamond, and replacing before it’s really worn-out.
I like the Audio Technica LP120USB alright - it’s a lot of turntable for the money. Don’t let the impressive heft fool you: It’s mostly made of plastic, and its motor has nowhere near the torque of an SL1200. And yet, it works pretty good. Main gripe is that, like most conventional turntables, it demands a dedicated space near the rest of the system.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
When it comes to the AT LP 120 USB, I always recommend the following video, because apart from the (subjectively) not so good and clean sound of the built-in phono-preamplifier, it has (objectively) another weak point. There is always a filter circuit in the output circuit that dampens the high-frequency response somewhat. I had found this out myself earlier and soldered my RCA cable directly to the tonearm cables. This made a big difference in hifi sound. I threw the interface in the rubbish.
BTW: This is also the case with some other Hanpin turntables I have tried with similar interfaces built in.
BTW: This is also the case with some other Hanpin turntables I have tried with similar interfaces built in.
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computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
I'm not sure I understand (sorry), but who uses sapphire needles anymore? They have been obsolete for more than 50 years now.
One fringe benny of a manual car is that it is less likely to get stolen, as the thief, when he gets behind the wheel after breaking into the car, will not know how to drive it away. I like my 5-speed manual car and my 10-speed pedal bike. TWO shifters on the bike. Two of 'um!
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I'll never forget learning how to drive a manual car, on a very steep hill at a red light turning green, as every failed attempt to work the clutch meant slipping back further towards the angry line of of cars behind us. Ah, good times.
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Only some of the biggest sellers in the USA: Portable record players sold under brand names such as Crosley, Victrola, and that portablist favorite, Numark PT01. YouTuber “vwestife” has videos demonstrating very audible sonic improvements gained simply by upgrading the stylus of one of those Chuo Denshi type piezo cartridges.
Of course it’s obsolete technology, in the sense that record playback itself reached it’s zenith in the late 1970s or early 1980s. Since that era, most of the advances made have been more about how much money people can be convinced to spend on a turntable.
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