FIR for hypex fusion plate!

[SDC]

Well it has been a while since it was updated.

But no one posted this good news. So here it is.

Checked and it works with my speaker.

It took so long but finally! We can use high order filters with less to no harm...

 

[fluid]

Just bear in mind that if you are limited to 1500 taps you will not be able to make accurate high slope crossovers low in frequency. The Hypex is stuck at a fairly high unusual sampling frequency which makes the problem worse. No issue for simple two way designs at 2.5K crossovers, but at 400Hz an LR8 is no longer exact and at 80 Hz an LR8 is hopeless.

Still a nice feature to have if it works on the revision of board you have already or for anyone buying a new one.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Note that this is only works with newer Fusionamps (that comes with v5.x firmware from the factory).

 

[ChargedCapacitor]

I would imagine this would serve it's best purpose as a crossover phase correction tool, rather than have actual FIR crossovers.

 

[fluid]

It makes some difference to use it that way, an LR48 at 250Hz can be limearized quite accurately, lower slopes help, an LR4 can do the same down to 120Hz and is still passable at 80Hz with some optimization and the right window.

 

[R3Forge]

Hi, has anyone managed to generate an output file in rePhase that was accepted by HFD?

I have a hard time finding the export settings in rePhase that are correctly accepted by HFD. According to the manual, you have two options on my specific FA253:

Input FIR:
4500 taps @ 93750Hz,

Output FIR:
1500 taps @ 93750Hz

as a .txt file

I got to the point where I didn't get an error on loading the generated file, but the file was not loaded/applied/accepted by HFD.

Thanks for any pointers upfront!

 

[R3Forge]

Hi, has anyone managed to generate an output file in rePhase that was accepted by HFD?

I have a hard time finding the export settings in rePhase that are correctly accepted by HFD. According to the manual, you have two options on my specific FA253:

Input FIR:
4500 taps @ 93750Hz,

Output FIR:
1500 taps @ 93750Hz

as a .txt file

I got to the point where I didn't get an error on loading the generated file, but the file was not loaded/applied/accepted by HFD.

Thanks for any pointers upfront!

Alright, I figured it out... You need to start a new Filter session/project to apply the FIR file. You cannot use an existing project created with a previous version of HFD.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

I just programmed my Hypex FA253 with FIR filters and I'm absolutely blown away. I used Rephase. The filters are all 48db or 36db an octave in a 3-way box and the phase is nearly perfect. While the software and process are a bit cumbersome, the effectiveness is top notch.

 

[rulez007]

I just programmed my Hypex FA253 with FIR filters and I'm absolutely blown away. I used Rephase. The filters are all 48db or 36db an octave in a 3-way box and the phase is nearly perfect. While the software and process are a bit cumbersome, the effectiveness is top notch.

Would you care to share the steps and setup for measurement and calculation? I would be very interested as I've just finished my first build. Thanks a lot!

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Would you care to share the steps and setup for measurement and calculation? I would be very interested as I've just finished my first build. Thanks a lot!

I use REW for measurements and I did an initial active crossover with minidsp and my buckeye 6 channel hypex amplifier in order to get an idea of where I would land.
Then I use RePhase to generate FIR filters and import them to hypex. Then I took measurements again. The cumbersome part is that it takes a while to get from RePhase to the hypex amp since you have to upload the file into the hypex.
So, get familiar with the hypex amplifier software and its settings. I have never used the measurement tool in them as I'm used to working in REW. Then, download RePhase and get used to that. PM me on here and I can help you with the rest as I don't have time to write it all out right now.

 

[tblb]

hello,

I could use some more explanation too.

actualy, I use iir filter (1 lr4 on bass, 2 lr4 on mid and 1 lr4 on treble)

if I understand correctly I should take measurement of each drivers individually then apply 1500 taps fir filter ?

or

i have to apply a 4500 taps globally ?

thanks.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

hello,

I could use some more explanation too.

actualy, I use iir filter (1 lr4 on bass, 2 lr4 on mid and 1 lr4 on treble)

if I understand correctly I should take measurement of each drivers individually then apply 1500 taps fir filter ?

or

i have to apply a 4500 taps globally ?

thanks.

It's 1500 taps per filter on the output OR 4500 taps globally. If you use them on the output then you're using them in the crossover. If you use them on the input then you're using them globally which is not effecting the crossover, but it will affect the overall phase. If you use it globally (which I have never done) you will be putting attempting to put the phase back to flat. I recommend using it on the output where you can generate a flat phase crossover. Use RePhase to generate the filters then import them.

 

[tblb]

It's 1500 taps per filter on the output OR 4500 taps globally. If you use them on the output then you're using them in the crossover. If you use them on the input then you're using them globally which is not effecting the crossover, but it will affect the overall phase. If you use it globally (which I have never done) you will be putting attempting to put the phase back to flat. I recommend using it on the output where you can generate a flat phase crossover. Use RePhase to generate the filters then import them.

Thank you for your answer , I made fir filter for bass mid and treble , I will try it , I have a delay an the treble because They are 5 cm in front of the medium , I can just let the delay like on IIR filters ?

 

[Scott Lanterman]

I use REW for measurements and I did an initial active crossover with minidsp and my buckeye 6 channel hypex amplifier in order to get an idea of where I would land.
Then I use RePhase to generate FIR filters and import them to hypex. Then I took measurements again. The cumbersome part is that it takes a while to get from RePhase to the hypex amp since you have to upload the file into the hypex.
So, get familiar with the hypex amplifier software and its settings. I have never used the measurement tool in them as I'm used to working in REW. Then, download RePhase and get used to that. PM me on here and I can help you with the rest as I don't have time to write it all out right now.

Is there a place on Youtube or somewhere else that goes over a design from scratch using Hypex Fusion Amps? It seems like a well implemented active crossover with room correction can be far superior to a passive set up and much simpler and cheaper in the end.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Thank you for your answer , I made fir filter for bass mid and treble , I will try it , I have a delay an the treble because They are 5 cm in front of the medium , I can just let the delay like on IIR filters ?

I don't really know the answer to that. You will have to try it and take measurements to see how the impulse response and phase look. I would imagine that it should work just fine.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Is there a place on Youtube or somewhere else that goes over a design from scratch using Hypex Fusion Amps? It seems like a well implemented active crossover with room correction can be far superior to a passive set up and much simpler and cheaper in the end.

I don't really know anything on YouTube about it. I found some info on message boards and went with it but I'm used to active DSP so I was familiar with what needs to be done. A well implemented active crossover can definitely be superior in my experience since you can get a better phase and impulse response. Many people think that you can't hear the difference (and it has been tested to show this), but I think the difference is pretty clear (pun intended). Given the hypex and miniDSP capabilities along with affordable class D amplification, it can be much cheaper to use active crossovers. Pro Audio has been doing this for many years. But hifi seems to be struggling to get past the joy that some harmonic distortion brings.

 

[Scott Lanterman]

When you think about the cost of good inductors and capacitors, then trying one idea out and comparing it to another idea it seems like that gets expensive fast. In addition you have a lot of waste with parts covered in solder that you don't use. Just seems like there should be more DIY "how to" out there for Hypex. I can see wanting to pick up your speaker and it over to your friends place, a passive has some portability pluses and amp mix and match fun. But if excellence is what you want, it just seems that this path makes more sense. It would be cool to see a beginning to end DIY speaker design project, the measuring stuff needed, and using a Hypex fusion to arrive at a well designed speaker.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

"The Bronco" DIY Studio Monitor

This project started with a friend who wanted me to make studio monitors for him. He loved the mid-range (no surprise due to the FIR filters) but the low end ran out of gas too soon so he didn't end up wanting to keep them. So, I painted them white and flew them in my garage. These things...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is a build that I did with a Hypex Plate amp. I did some basic documenting of the results.
I have a ton of capacitors, inductors and resistors for the reason that you stated above. I have to try every value because you don't know how they will react until you try them. Calculators can only get you close (at best). I still like passive stuff when I'm using vinyl and an all analog system. It's just fun. I also like what I can do with passive components to get where I want. I think the barrier to active stuff is that people don't know how to work with it and (as you're saying here) there isn't a lot of info out there on how to do it. If I enjoyed making videos in the same way that I enjoy making speakers then maybe I would do that. I will say that these are the best sounding speakers I've ever made. They reveal a ton of detail and I think it's due to the FIR filters.

 

[tblb]

Are they linear phase filter or minimum phase filter ?

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

Are they linear phase filter or minimum phase filter ?

I have no idea. Ha! Does anyone on here know?