Hi. I`m torn between these 2 dac/amps. I don`t really have anywhere to test them (from the local shops in my country if you buy you don`t have return option). I had a little bit of an issue with the treble of the Edition XS using the Oratory EQ, but i managed to tame it. Currently I am using the ifi zen air dac v1 and I want to upgrade and get more power. From what I`ve read the Fiio K11 R2R is a bit warmer DAC/AMP which should mean it has a little bit of bass(punch) to it, while the Fiio K7 is brighter which means it has treble that might be a of an issue. Has anyone had expirience with these specific combinations? I would like to add a little bit of punch (bass) to the Edition XS that doesn`t make the songs sound muddy( like my zen dac xbass option). Can anyone give me his thoughts on this matter?
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Fiio K11 R2R vs Fiio K7 for Hifiman edition XS
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oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
The K11's NOS mode will roll off treble (though this will depend on the sample rate of the material), but if you've already got PEQ setup, that would be the better, more flexible tool for frequency response tweaks.
The K11 R2R produces a lot of distortion. It's SINAD is terrible at only 72 dB. See here for measurements. Use EQ to tune the sound of the headphones not distortion of DACs and amps. How do you know the K11 R2R sounds warm and the K7 is bright? How was any of that determined? Unless the levels where matched and devices where unknown to the listeners, there is no way of knowing what really is the sound of either inasmuch as they have any.
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Thats what people say in their reviews - one is warm the other is bright. At the end this is what people hear. So with so many distortions you wouldn`t recommend it? I`m not a pro with EQ so I would prefer to just buy the heapdhones, buy dac/amp and just plug them in. But in this hobby that is almost impossible. It took me a lot of time to EQ the Edition XS to my ifi zen air dac and I`m left with the impression that i could do more but i dont.
unpluggged
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You EQ your headphones to your ears (using a target response as a reference), not to your DAC.
Why would anyone recommend something with "so many distortions"?
There are plenty of reviews of well-performing gear on this site. Just take your time to read through them.
Why lend any credence to it?
No, I would not recommend it.
There should be no change in EQ required between different DACs and amps if their distortion is low and frequency responses are flat to 20 kHz.
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- #7
Okay. Thank you guys. I`m gonna go and buy when K7 sometime soon. Thank you for the help. And you are right - i shouldn`t listen to people on the internet that much. Everyone has his preferences and hears different things.
I actually own the K7 and the K11 R2R. The K7 is much better as a headphone amplifier due to it's power and can drive pretty much any headphone to reasonable volume levels. The DAC in the K7 is also very good and somewhat warm sounding. The K11 R2R is an ok headphone amp but lacks power. Where the K11 R2R shines is as a pure DAC for a HiFi stereo setup, man the K11 sounds so good when used like this. I know that I'm probably hearing noise or whatever from the D/A conversion but seriously it just makes music sound so natural. I think this is what the hype is all about for the K11 R2R is that people enjoy the natural analogue like sound it produces. I was a skeptic at first but as soon as I listened to it I was pleasantly surprised. Just my 2 cents.
unpluggged
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If anything, audible noise prevents music from sounding natural.
NOS R-2R topology is as far from "natural analogue-like sound" as it can be.
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I still haven`t bought a DAC/AMP. I`m still at dilemma which one to get. But it is probably going to be the Fiio K7 - because i don`t want to get the K11R2R with another amp. I want to be one device at least for the moment. But still i would like to try the R2R just to see if its that good musically as people hype it up. Im going to connect speakers to it - Edifier R2850db. Have you tried connecting speakers to these DAC/AMPs? Have you "heard" improvements?
Svend P
Senior Member
You're wasting your time. They all sound the same.
How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
www.audiosciencereview.com
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- #12
You`re probably one of these people that say all water tastes the same
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unpluggged
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Before making rude arguments, read the suggested materials and conduct properly set up DBTs.You`re probably one of these people that say all water tastes the same
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- #14
I didn`t mean to be rude. Thats why i put the smiley face at the end. Wasn`t that the universal symbol of a joke/sarcasm? Or i`m just that old. I apologise. I didn`t mean anything by it. But to say these 2 DACS have no difference is kinda weird. All the reviews say they are different. Even the technology is different. I`m no expert but they should have differences.
Svend P
Senior Member
When they can see what is playing. When testing blind, no one can tell the difference. But that doesn't sell too many DACs, so everyone in the business keeps quiet about it.
Notice our host says measurements are everything when it comes to DACs
Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?
Seems like so many review threads get challenged with: 1. Measurements are not everything. 2. You all never listen. 3. I trust my ears, not graphs. 4. I don't listen to graphs. I listen to music. 5. You all must not listen to music at all. 6. Why don't you all buy the best SINAD gear? 7...
www.audiosciencereview.com
unpluggged
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That's what I was talking about. At least good that you admit your post was, in fact, hostile.
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Its funny that you completely ignored the other word before "sarcasm" in my post. In your dictionary sample it clearly says "OR JUST TO BE FUNNY". Its funny how you just underline the one thing that suits your agenda. Again - It wasn`t meant to be a hostile remark - and that is why there is a "smiley face" at the end. Don`t try to make something out of nothing. If the person that my message was meant to is hurt by my statement I apologise. It is unnecessary for you to make this "joke" into a problem when it clearly didn`t hurt anyone`s feelings. Just a funny post - thats all it was. You are making me feel attacked, because you don`t have sense of humour and didn`t understood it was a joke. And no - this is not attack on your personality - we are different and I apologise to you aswell for making you feel uncomfortable with my joke which had zero intent to "insult someone".
And i don`t admit my post was "hostile" as you have stated. On the contrary - it is a fun post with no intent of harm - as i have stated previously. You are the one that has claimed that it is "hostile" by some random measurement i suppose. I don`t understand how you come with the term "hostile"
And i don`t admit my post was "hostile" as you have stated. On the contrary - it is a fun post with no intent of harm - as i have stated previously. You are the one that has claimed that it is "hostile" by some random measurement i suppose. I don`t understand how you come with the term "hostile"
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Svend P
Senior Member
I just thought it was a bit confusing. Do you believe people can tell the difference between water?
Svend P
Senior Member
Ok, sounds like a fringe case, but let's leave it at that.Yeah different bottled water taste different.
DACs however do not sound differently. If they did, they would have been constructed badly:
DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
(UPDATES BELOW) That blind test was long due, it's now done. Started with a 30$ unit (Fiio) against a 3000$ one (Forssell) and once SPL-matched (massive gain difference), no one could tell the difference in a ABX test. Then, we switched to a different set-up, using a pair of B&W CM9 speakers...
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