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Etymotic ER2XR Review (IEM)

mkc

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Wouldn't that mean 150 dB SPL at 20 Hz?
looking at the graph you posted, I realized that they didn't mention what frequency the 100dB SPL is based on, as it only showed the THD.
Judging from the curve, if we assume the 100dBA is @ 1kHz, I think that will be on the 100phon line, so to get the same loudness at 20Hz, it should be close to 130dB SPL?? (I too am trying to understand this whole thing)


edit:
following this and what I linked earlier, it seems that you are right, but likely not a good idea to listen at that level......
on the other hand, 150dB SPL doesn't sound possible, if the 2XR is maxed at 120dB SPL, but I see no spec about max SPL on the EVO page so......

Not exactly sure on this too so hope someone more knowledgeable will give a more definitive answer.
 
Last edited:
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Earfonia

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Very trebly:

fr_competition_700h.png

Sorry, but have you tried EVO or your comment is based on the graphs?
If the graphs are raw measurement results and the measurement equipment compatible to IEC 711 coupler, based on my experience reading IEM FR graphs, EVO will sound more or less balanced. To me the 'Trebly' part of the FR are:
1. The peak around 4-5kHz,
2. The 7kHz dip, and
3. The 8-11kHz resonance peak.

All of the 1st and 3rd observation points are lower than the 2.7kHz midrange peak, that means the treble won't be more dominant than the midrange. The bump around 4kHz is good, close to my target, but the 7kHz dip is a bit higher than the midrange dip, looks around 3 dB higher, but still within my target. The resonance peak is way high at probably 13.5kHz / 14kHz. Looks like the insertion depth during measurement is very2 deep, probably touching the reference plane of the IEC 711 coupler which is around 12 mm away from the mic membrane.

From all those 3 observation points, I don't see that EVO will sound 'Trebly'. There will be a bit of treble sharpness from the 7kHz dip that is probably around 3dB higher than the midrange dip, but I think that is still within my acceptable treble sharpness. I prefer the 7kHz dip to be around the same level as the midrange dip.

Just for convenience, I re-posted my target curve here:

12 EITC-2021 1080p.png


13 EITC-2021 - Perceived SQ 1080p.png
 
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Earfonia

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Do you have a recommendation for an Etymotic dealer in Singapore please, I am new to Singapore and still finding things.

I've been to most of the headphone shops in Singapore, and they are all good reputable shops. So I don't have any particular shop to recommend, I kinda know them all. I bought mine from Zeppelin & Co.
 

JJB70

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I've been to most of the headphone shops in Singapore, and they are all good reputable shops. So I don't have any particular shop to recommend, I kinda know them all. I bought mine from Zeppelin & Co.
Thanks, I'll pay them a visit!
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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Sorry, but have you tried EVO or your comment is based on the graphs?
If the graphs are raw measurement results and the measurement equipment compatible to IEC 711 coupler, based on my experience reading IEM FR graphs, EVO will sound more or less balanced. To me the 'Trebly' part of the FR are:
1. The peak around 4-5kHz,
2. The 7kHz dip, and
3. The 8-11kHz resonance peak.

All of the 1st and 3rd observation points are lower than the 2.7kHz midrange peak, that means the treble won't be more dominant than the midrange. The bump around 4kHz is good, close to my target, but the 7kHz dip is a bit higher than the midrange dip, looks around 3 dB higher, but still within my target. The resonance peak is way high at probably 13.5kHz / 14kHz. Looks like the insertion depth during measurement is very2 deep, probably touching the reference plane of the IEC 711 coupler which is around 12 mm away from the mic membrane.

From all those 3 observation points, I don't see that EVO will sound 'Trebly'. There will be a bit of treble sharpness from the 7kHz dip that is probably around 3dB higher than the midrange dip, but I think that is still within my acceptable treble sharpness. I prefer the 7kHz dip to be around the same level as the midrange dip.

Just for convenience, I re-posted my target curve here:

View attachment 178992

View attachment 178993
That measurement is from GRAS 43AG. The resonance peak looks to be at 9.5 kHz.
 
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Earfonia

Earfonia

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That measurement is from GRAS 43AG. The resonance peak looks to be at 9.5 kHz.

The EVO is the blue graph right? Doesn't seem to be any peak around that 9.5kHz, the ER3SE red graph does show peak at 9.5kHz area, not the blue graph.
 
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Earfonia

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Just found this measurement by Headphone.com, the standard fit, the blue graph, the treble looks really scary:


Etymotic_EVO2.jpg


So based on that 8kHz resonance peak insertion depth, yes it looks that it sound pretty 'trebly'.

But according to Mark Ryan the treble is a bit dark:


So quite interesting. I have to try it by myself.
 
Last edited:

GaryH

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Sorry, but have you tried EVO or your comment is based on the graphs?
If the graphs are raw measurement results and the measurement equipment compatible to IEC 711 coupler, based on my experience reading IEM FR graphs, EVO will sound more or less balanced. To me the 'Trebly' part of the FR are:
1. The peak around 4-5kHz,
2. The 7kHz dip, and
3. The 8-11kHz resonance peak.

All of the 1st and 3rd observation points are lower than the 2.7kHz midrange peak, that means the treble won't be more dominant than the midrange. The bump around 4kHz is good, close to my target, but the 7kHz dip is a bit higher than the midrange dip, looks around 3 dB higher, but still within my target. The resonance peak is way high at probably 13.5kHz / 14kHz. Looks like the insertion depth during measurement is very2 deep, probably touching the reference plane of the IEC 711 coupler which is around 12 mm away from the mic membrane.

From all those 3 observation points, I don't see that EVO will sound 'Trebly'. There will be a bit of treble sharpness from the 7kHz dip that is probably around 3dB higher than the midrange dip, but I think that is still within my acceptable treble sharpness. I prefer the 7kHz dip to be around the same level as the midrange dip.

Just for convenience, I re-posted my target curve here:

View attachment 178992

View attachment 178993
Sorry the reviewer incorrectly said this:
if you brought the bass up about 2dB and the treble down about 3dB, you’d have a response pretty close to that of the Harmon [sic] curve
They also incorrectly said the AKG N5005 is very close to the Harman target, so I was using its response as a proxy reference. (I wish all reviewers would just show the actual Harman target along with their measurements so readers have a standard common reference.) The N5005 actually significantly undershoots the Harman target through most of the treble:

graph-5.png


The EVO is however forward in the upper midrange / lower treble, and can have treble peaks depending on insertion depth as shown above by headphones.com's measurements.
 
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Earfonia

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I wish all reviewers would just show the actual Harman target along with their measurements so readers have a standard common reference.

That's also a problem, because many reviewers including myself we don't use the same equipment as the one used to create Harman Target. So comparing 2 measurement from different equipment setup and calibration can seriously misleading. That's the reason I have to come up with my own target.
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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The EVO is the blue graph right? Doesn't seem to be any peak around that 9.5kHz, the ER3SE red graph does show peak at 9.5kHz area, not the blue graph.
A 13.5/14 kHz resonance peak is essentially impossible to achieve with that test setup and i would think it would extend much better if he actually got it that deep.
 
Last edited:

HRTF_Enthusiast

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Sorry the reviewer incorrectly said this:

They also incorrectly said the AKG N5005 is very close to the Harman target, so I was using its response as a proxy reference. (I wish all reviewers would just show the actual Harman target along with their measurements so readers have a standard common reference.) The N5005 actually significantly undershoots the Harman target through most of the treble:

View attachment 179015

The EVO is however forward in the upper midrange / lower treble, and can have treble peaks depending on insertion depth as shown above by headphones.com's measurements.
Crinacle's Evo measurement certainly looks the smoothest out of all the one's I've seen. I'm not sure if he was using the large or medium bi-flange.
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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Oooppsss! :)

Could you please elaborate more what it is that makes it sounds quite bad?
The lack of high-frequency extension in this IEM significantly limits detail (1). Air frequencies are nonexistent. In addition, treble that occurs earlier sounds harsh and bright (2). I can only insert this deep enough for an 8.2 kHz resonance peak before the shell of the IEM prevents me from inserting deeper. The unsmooth treble makes the IEM quite fatiguing to listen to. The mids come across as too recessed because of the sudden drop-off after 2 kHz instead of a smooth downward slope (3). There is just no engagement. Surprisingly, the bass is not as boosted as I expected. The boost is concentrated in the sub-bass region (4), but drum hits in songs do not sound "tight." This has to do with the sub-bass masking mid-bass and lower mids as well the lack of high-frequency extension blunting transient response.
graph - 2022-01-14T222510.388.png

I compensate for diffuse-field (basically the same as Harman flat in-room) so that I can compare headphone measurements to in-room speaker frequency responses. I know differences in preferred DRP measurements between speakers and headphones were shown in S. Olive's 2013 study. Still, I do not think this is important since auditory masking levels are identical between speakers and headphones at normal drive levels.
 
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HRTF_Enthusiast

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One thing I forgot to mention is that when using a sine wave generator, the Evo rapidly dips and shoots back up after the resonant peak as shown in the graphs. It sounds like there are gaps in the imaging.
 

2M2B

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Just found this measurement by Headphone.com, the standard fit, the blue graph, the treble looks really scary:


View attachment 179014

So based on that 8kHz resonance peak insertion depth, yes it looks that it sound pretty 'trebly'.

But according to Mark Ryan the treble is a bit dark:


So quite interesting. I have to try it by myself.
Sounds like a Multi BA issue depend on fit depth & tip, It will sound forward at 5 ~ 9KHz but roll off above 10KHz. Noticed this when I got a ER4XR in 2019 after giving up Multi BA IEM's from finding It hard to get a fit. Because the there using 7mm BA woofers you won't get a bass loss if the seal is not perfect, While on the ER4XR you get sudden bass loss.
 
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