Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements

[RayDunzl]

Here's a thought I just had (probably wrong, but that's another topic altogether):

Entreq adds noise.

If it adds uncorrelated noise (and maybe it would need to be at the same level as the noise in the system already)...

Would that reduce noise?

 

[iridium]

Here's a thought I just had (probably wrong, but that's another topic altogether):

Entreq adds noise.

If it adds uncorrelated noise (and maybe it would need to be at the same level as the noise in the system already)...

Would that reduce noise?

Hello RayDunzl,
Please see my post #33; it is about adding noise [extremely expense].

Best to you,
iridium.

 

[RayDunzl]

Would that reduce noise?

My little test says "no".

 

[amirm]

Here is yet another specialized instrument being applied to the task. This time, a portable magnetic and electric field meter. This is one sensitive device. To give you an idea, when put in magnetic field mode, and just holding it in my hand, the meter dances with the changing magnetic field to the tune of music coming out of my speakers!

I tested the Entreq using the RF mode while it is connected to my main audio system. Connectivity is through an RCA jack in the AUX input of my pre-amp, with the other end being a 3.5 mm headphone jack that is then connected across the back of Entreq. Here is the output of that:

So we clearly have Electric field radiation. Disconnecting the cable to Entreq caused the meter to go to zero so clearly the source is from the pre-amp, not stray field:

To see if this radiation is the special property of the material inside Entreq or the bare wire within, I hooked up a piece of wire to the headphone jack:

As you can see, the same radiation exists with just that wire (I could have wiggled the wire enough to create similar field strength to Entreq so don't worry about that).

I reconnected the connection to my pre-amp to the Entreq and moved the meter around to see where the active elements are inside the Entreq:

This is the top of it (the front of my meter is where its sensor is so had to put it upside down).

So the conductive element/wire inside Entreq as Bob's picture found, goes all around the box.

In summary, coming from a very different direction, we yet again confirmed what we have here. That is, a piece of wire coming from our audio equipment, radiating low level energy. No "sinking" or "shunting" or "absorbing" is happening. But the opposite.

 

[RayDunzl]

Is the Power Amplifier on or off?

 

[amirm]

Is the Power Amplifier on or off?

You have good eyes. That amplifier is off. It is not part of my system. Hope to post a thread on what my system is and looks like. For now, that Mark Levinson amp is decoration.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Try one of these instead:

 

[John Kenny]

Amir, could you try using the magnetic field reading to check for magnetite? I presume it will read a magnetic field if the material in the box is magnetic?

 

[RayDunzl]

For now, that Mark Levinson amp is decoration.

I always thought them stylish.

My other objection would be that you should be extending/connecting only the ground.

Didn't P.O. send a cable along with the box?

 

[amirm]

Didn't P.O. send a cable along with the box?

Originally he was but then he didn't.

 

[amirm]

Amir, could you try using the magnetic field reading to check for magnetite? I presume it will read a magnetic field if the material in the box is magnetic?

I ran it on all surfaces and it is not. The meter shows no magnetic field even in the most sensitive setting.

 

[RayDunzl]

Even if it is magnetite crystals in the unit, the random orientation would likely net to (near) zero.

 

[John Kenny]

I ran it on all surfaces and it is not. The meter shows no magnetic field even in the most sensitive setting.

Thanks. Maybe Ray has a point?

 

[FrantzM]

Thanks. Maybe Ray has a point?

I sincerely believe that those products are based on us wanting dearly to hear something, especially when some one else with a "better" system has declared having heard "vast" improvements. Most often these improvements are of the ethereal nature: "blacker" backgrounds, the ever expanding soundstage, the fleshier instruments and my favorite: the more organic as opposed to preservatives and chemical-laden, presentation. Suddenly the poor audiophile is caught in a situation akin to his/her membership to a club being threatened of revocation. So his brain starts constructing a new reality. And you get all those testimonies.. It is mostly unconscious. They are sincere and it is based on the fear of not belonging. On top of that after the (always serious , cheap tweaks do not acquire much traction) expense, the audiophile financial well-being is not very much affected. For an outside observer, it looks like a total waste of money but this is much more complex, in term of real sonic benefits there may be none but this audiophile has increased her/his status, he/she has gained new credits, in colloquial terms, his audiophile creds have increased. Well-being however fleeting follows, could be an explanation for the "more relaxed presentation" BTW.
While this may seem to be a joke I very seriously see it as a plausible explanation to the total lack of measurable effects from many of these tweaks. While they may not do anything in the physical realm, they provide a certain level of satisfaction to their owners. That is why all these tweaks only work with full knowledge of the DUT. Knowledge removed? So will most, if not all, perceptions. Also these tweaks must be expensive, cheap tweaks don't make it on the High End Audio market.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I sincerely believe that those products are based on us wanting dearly to hear something, especially when some one else with a "better" system has declared that having heard vast improvements. Most often these improvements are of the ethereal nature: "blacker" backgrounds, the ever expending soundstage, the flesh instruments and my favorite: the more organic as opposed to preservatives and chemical-laden presentation. Suddenly the poor audiophile is caught in a situation akin to his/her membership to a club being threatened of revocation. So his brain starts constructing a new reality. And you get all those testimonies.. It is mostly unconscious. They are sincere and it is based on the fear of not belonging. On top of that after the (always serious , cheap tweaks do not acquire much traction) expense, the audiophile financial well-being is not very much affected. for an outside observer, it looks like a total waste of money but this is much more complex,. In term of real sonic benefits there may be none but this audiophile has increased her/his status, he/she has gained new credits, in colloquial terms, his audiophile creds have increased. Well-being however fleeting follows, could be an explanation for the "more relaxed preseantation" too.
While this may seem to be a joke I very seriously see it as a plausible explanation to the total lack of measurable effects from many of these tweaks. While they may not do anything in the physical realm, they provide a certain level of satisfaction to their owners. That is why all these tweaks only work with full knowledge of the DUT. With knowledge removed, so will most, if not all, perceptions. is a corollary. These tweaks must be expensive, cheap tweaks don't make it on the High ENd Audio market.

I think you have the exact explanation here for this.

A related effect I have seen is when posting bits of music recorded from gear to let someone hear it or compare two bits of gear. Invariably a few people will listen and then denigrate the sound quality. Say things like, "if either of those is the quality you are used to hearing I pity you can't hear a properly tuned high end system". Sometimes though I would slip in the actual original file from a CD or other medium. Same bit for bit music. It also got the same evaluation from people when they didn't know what it was. I have seen this occur for years.

I believe when one has 'tuned' their system, spent time and mental energy selecting components, experienced what you describe above when making 'improvements', etc. etc. people have a bit of sense of self invested, and really do hear thru a filter of the quality they know is in their system. Then when they hear something without that context, without the mental metadata attached, they really hear only their system with no magic mental enhancers. And voila the magic is gone. It must be the 'alien' file they are hearing without the magic because they 'know' the magic is really in their gear as they installed the magic themselves.

 

[Thomas savage]

I sincerely believe that those products are based on us wanting dearly to hear something, especially when some one else with a "better" system has declared that having heard vast improvements. Most often these improvements are of the ethereal nature: "blacker" backgrounds, the ever expending soundstage, the flesh instruments and my favorite: the more organic as opposed to preservatives and chemical-laden presentation. Suddenly the poor audiophile is caught in a situation akin to his/her membership to a club being threatened of revocation. So his brain starts constructing a new reality. And you get all those testimonies.. It is mostly unconscious. They are sincere and it is based on the fear of not belonging. On top of that after the (always serious , cheap tweaks do not acquire much traction) expense, the audiophile financial well-being is not very much affected. for an outside observer, it looks like a total waste of money but this is much more complex,. In term of real sonic benefits there may be none but this audiophile has increased her/his status, he/she has gained new credits, in colloquial terms, his audiophile creds have increased. Well-being however fleeting follows, could be an explanation for the "more relaxed preseantation" too.
While this may seem to be a joke I very seriously see it as a plausible explanation to the total lack of measurable effects from many of these tweaks. While they may not do anything in the physical realm, they provide a certain level of satisfaction to their owners. That is why all these tweaks only work with full knowledge of the DUT. With knowledge removed, so will most, if not all, perceptions. is a corollary. These tweaks must be expensive, cheap tweaks don't make it on the High ENd Audio market.

It's perfectly plausible!

I am fairly certain if this device was put into a system without the owners knowledge no effect would be recognised.

Guys 'listen' when testing these types things but do so in a unnatural way, they will then seem to notice 'new' sounds and attribute this to the point of difference as they see it... The new device.

It's a faulty conclusion.

Why?

It's human nature, hey we even make patterns out of clouds!

Ironically by trying to 'understand' why they do this we are using the same mechanism they do.. Lay logic, the conclusions we draw while entertaining are no more valid unfortunately...,

But hey! There free we did not have to spend $$$$ for the privilege of indulging in pure conjecture and idle speculation

 

[RayDunzl]

Well I'm late to the game.
Connected an Olympus Minimus to my Tron Syren Full Function Preamp today.
4 hours in = no change that I can hear
Could be a bit early but usually the benefits are audible by that stage.

Let us know what the situation is after 24-48 hours

Uh-oh, someone is showing resistance to the force.

---

@amirm: Any more measurements, observations, or conclusions forthcoming from the unit you are scrutinizing?

PS: The cheap leakage meter I bought was faulty, wouldn't measure anything, returned it, didn't re-order anything.

 

[Thomas savage]

I had the Poseidon on trail, when I posted my listening impressions I got rounded on... Really! it upset people even though I made no comment on the validity of their opinions.

There were two of us in the thread who felt this way, but when the other guy started to report good things about the entreq they flocked around him like a cloak of love and doubled down on their distain for the ' un believer '

You get burnt like a witch on certain forums for not conforming to nonsense.

You could argue there are elements of a cult mentality at work..

 

[TBone]

I had the Poseidon on trail, when I posted my listening impressions I got rounded on... Really!

Never try sink the Poseidon while it's still floating; wait till your feet touch the ground.

 

[iridium]

I had the Poseidon on trail, when I posted my listening impressions I got rounded on... Really! it upset people even though I made no comment on the validity of their opinions.

There were two of us in the thread who felt this way, but when the other guy started to report good things about the entreq they flocked around him like a cloak of love and doubled down on their distain for the ' un believer '

You get burnt like a witch on certain forums for not conforming to nonsense.

You could argue there are elements of a cult mentality at work..

It is just like the political system voters; we will not talk about that!

iridium.

P.S. Thomas savage, I am keeping my eyes on Brexit.