Must try harder...
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Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Dallas is just too reasonable, my next Internet life will be based on Mike.
Keith.
Keith.
Love your new little kitty avatar Mike, who could ban someone like that.
You could not keep that up for a day!
Still never even close to having to moderate you here... It's very much puritanical Keith ... Or calamity Keith..
No it's hero Keith for snagging Beolab 90.. I won't not hear a bad word said about you.
dallasjustice
Major Contributor
Any suggestions? I know it's just a matter of time. How should I go out on WBF? Maybe I'll start a new thread in fight club.
dallasjustice
Major Contributor
[/QUOTE]
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-illusion-quot&p=397887&viewfull=1#post397887
Alrighty, maybe this will get me banned:Love your new little kitty avatar Mike, who could ban someone like that.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-illusion-quot&p=397887&viewfull=1#post397887
dallasjustice
Major Contributor
GaryProtein
Member
The fine black granular stuff looks like ground up coal or black fish tank gravel.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
It doesn't matter what the magic stuff inside the box is, the basic premise is wrong, electricity just doesn't work that way. But why didn't they use a solid block of gold, copper or aluminum. Planet Earth as a whole is very conductive. The problem is making a good connection.
Hi
If this is OT, feel free to delete but I couldn't help to rant a bit and share with the community.
Grounding is a very arcane and poorly understood aspect of electrical distribution systems. Even Electric Power Engineers do not have a consensus on what is the best way to ground. Countries differ on the way to best ground and electrical systems. The US has its ways and it is very different from France and even more so to UK itself different from Germany's, etc... . The subject is too complex to cover in a post and even if I wanted to I don't know enough about it to explain it well.. Just enough to know it is not as simple as people would think that is just drop some part of the electrical circuit to "earth" whatever that really means ... Grounding is important and doing it well often cost money. I became painfully aware of grounding issues when I had a Wireless ISP business and found myself constantly replacing changing rather expensive and often difficult to access to, equipments on top of hills, etc... We had to understand and we tried and finally part of the solution came in the form of the so called chemical grounding. Some companies specialize in these EXAMPLE HERE. We called a company in Texas whose name I forgot and they came and solved most of our problems that were due to grounding , unbeknown, then, to us. The funny thing was a box with some chemical and some soil-like thing in it . They came installed those and many problems were solved (not all but this is a different discussion). Such chemical grounding solution do exist and are not inexpensive and they work. They do not in all situation but did in ours.
Now let us go back to the High End Audio Industry. Our market is mostly males, above 45 years old (in 2016), with discretionary income. A few audiophiles do not fit this simplistic profile, however the vast majority do, perhaps above 85%. An informal survey of an audiophile site would reveal that. The Internet has also helped the would-be product manufacturers to identify their market. They know most (All?) audiophiles are OCD; better than before, they have a clear idea who we are. In simple terms, they know that once we think there could be a difference, we then proceed to hear it. Basic Human psychology at play here .. They bait us and some of us respond. Not all of us but enough to make the profit eventually, later make less controversial products or disappear with not much harm done or sustained. To me that is what this Entreq Box is all about. It ticks the "probable" from those who are informed enough but know absolutely nothing about grounding: After all grounding is always only one conductor to the "ground" and there is such a thing as special grounding electrodes (see this link, a competitor to the one above) I think my former company used their services but can't remember very well it was almost 20 years ago. The audiophile and perhaps their more knowledgeable or informed friend know the value of good grounding and to drive this idea home the so called Chemical Ground electrodes, those that came with some soil and some chemicals ... So the idea matures and some may have tried it and of course heard a difference ... The astute business person sees and opportunity, seizes it, markets it, making sure that the "solution" is priced high enough that only the more resolving systems, err... the more expensive ones can display the, from that point on, obvious differences. This is due to the highly evolved and superior hearing acuity of those systems owners.
Entreq and others are selling these expensive contraption and making a lot of money in the process. No one and nothing is hurt not even egos. If anything we will create the perception in our brains and some things will get wider, become darker, more organic, PRAT will improve and the galactic chasm between analog and digital will grow by a few more light-years ... but by now who's counting after such a stratospheric cash outlay? It may die off as all those tweaks eventually do but not before several of these "components" would have taken permanent residence in many well-of individuals abodes, most likely middle aged males. If they are smart the manufacturers will turn toward less controversial components and continue to make their money, they by now know if it is expensive it must be good. LessLoss has followed that path, I can't see any of their Quantum Travelling things on their website anymore... They do have an inexpensive AC thing and mostly "conventional" products..
If this is OT, feel free to delete but I couldn't help to rant a bit and share with the community.
Grounding is a very arcane and poorly understood aspect of electrical distribution systems. Even Electric Power Engineers do not have a consensus on what is the best way to ground. Countries differ on the way to best ground and electrical systems. The US has its ways and it is very different from France and even more so to UK itself different from Germany's, etc... . The subject is too complex to cover in a post and even if I wanted to I don't know enough about it to explain it well.. Just enough to know it is not as simple as people would think that is just drop some part of the electrical circuit to "earth" whatever that really means ... Grounding is important and doing it well often cost money. I became painfully aware of grounding issues when I had a Wireless ISP business and found myself constantly replacing changing rather expensive and often difficult to access to, equipments on top of hills, etc... We had to understand and we tried and finally part of the solution came in the form of the so called chemical grounding. Some companies specialize in these EXAMPLE HERE. We called a company in Texas whose name I forgot and they came and solved most of our problems that were due to grounding , unbeknown, then, to us. The funny thing was a box with some chemical and some soil-like thing in it . They came installed those and many problems were solved (not all but this is a different discussion). Such chemical grounding solution do exist and are not inexpensive and they work. They do not in all situation but did in ours.
Now let us go back to the High End Audio Industry. Our market is mostly males, above 45 years old (in 2016), with discretionary income. A few audiophiles do not fit this simplistic profile, however the vast majority do, perhaps above 85%. An informal survey of an audiophile site would reveal that. The Internet has also helped the would-be product manufacturers to identify their market. They know most (All?
) audiophiles are OCD; better than before, they have a clear idea who we are. In simple terms, they know that once we think there could be a difference, we then proceed to hear it. Basic Human psychology at play here .. They bait us and some of us respond. Not all of us but enough to make the profit eventually, later make less controversial products or disappear with not much harm done or sustained. To me that is what this Entreq Box is all about. It ticks the "probable" from those who are informed enough but know absolutely nothing about grounding: After all grounding is always only one conductor to the "ground" and there is such a thing as special grounding electrodes (see this link, a competitor to the one above) I think my former company used their services but can't remember very well it was almost 20 years ago. The audiophile and perhaps their more knowledgeable or informed friend know the value of good grounding and to drive this idea home the so called Chemical Ground electrodes, those that came with some soil and some chemicals ... So the idea matures and some may have tried it and of course heard a difference ... The astute business person sees and opportunity, seizes it, markets it, making sure that the "solution" is priced high enough that only the more resolving systems, err... the more expensive ones can display the, from that point on, obvious differences. This is due to the highly evolved and superior hearing acuity of those systems owners.Entreq and others are selling these expensive contraption and making a lot of money in the process. No one and nothing is hurt not even egos. If anything we will create the perception in our brains and some things will get wider, become darker, more organic, PRAT will improve and the galactic chasm between analog and digital will grow by a few more light-years ... but by now who's counting after such a stratospheric cash outlay? It may die off as all those tweaks eventually do but not before several of these "components" would have taken permanent residence in many well-of individuals abodes, most likely middle aged males. If they are smart the manufacturers will turn toward less controversial components and continue to make their money, they by now know if it is expensive it must be good. LessLoss has followed that path, I can't see any of their Quantum Travelling things on their website anymore... They do have an inexpensive AC thing and mostly "conventional" products..
They are crap and you have to be a sap to buy one.
Keith
Keith
OP
- Thread Starter
- #132
Frantz, I think in many cases, the creator of the product is "fooled" just as well as the audiophile. They make a tweak, concentrate to hear a difference and naturally hear nuances they did not. They then make a few for others and they too hear the improvements. And the game is on. There are of course others who just copy these tweaks or try to rip people off but I think there are a lot who are convinced these things make a difference. I think PO, the owner of this device is one or he would not so openly allow the device to be tested. He is sure it makes a difference because he has heard it.
Alternatively and less charitably they think this is a really good way to extract cash from saps.
Keith
Keith
dallasjustice
Major Contributor
To me, based on the evidence Amir generously provided us, Entreq is a fraud. Any website or forum which continues to allow Entreq and their witting/unwitting promotors to perpetuate this fraud without challenge should be ashamed of themselves.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
The lower case word 'ground' is very confusing, it has a dozen or two common meaning and an equal number of incorrect meanings. In that very long grounding block thread, different posters use different meanings (both correct & incorrect) so it's impossible to keep everyone on the same page.
A few posts ago, Frantz wrote about the need for some industrial, communications & IT building to have a good connection to Planet Earth. It's because they often get struck by lightning, they are good targets. The stakes in our gardens are there for the same reason, but at home it's for nearby strikes not direct hits. There are also other events when a ground rod is needed.
In many areas of electricity, there is a common mis-understanding about ground rods. The thought is that bad electricity can be sent into Planet Earth and it will just disappear. But Planet Earth does not act as a sink or sump for bad electricity. Bad electricity always wants to get back to it's voltage source and it's voltage source is that big power company transformer down the street. In almost all cases there are more convenient paths back to the transformer than through Planet Earth.
A few posts ago, Frantz wrote about the need for some industrial, communications & IT building to have a good connection to Planet Earth. It's because they often get struck by lightning, they are good targets. The stakes in our gardens are there for the same reason, but at home it's for nearby strikes not direct hits. There are also other events when a ground rod is needed.
In many areas of electricity, there is a common mis-understanding about ground rods. The thought is that bad electricity can be sent into Planet Earth and it will just disappear. But Planet Earth does not act as a sink or sump for bad electricity. Bad electricity always wants to get back to it's voltage source and it's voltage source is that big power company transformer down the street. In almost all cases there are more convenient paths back to the transformer than through Planet Earth.
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I sort of agree. Then again, you want all forums to eliminate the frauds????? There won't be much left!
Yes but the remnants would at least 'do' something.
Michael is right if you don't stand against this sort of thing then you are complicit in its propagation.
Keith.
dallasjustice
Major Contributor
Keith,
That word "remnant" is the most apt word for the occasion. For me, that word is powerful because it refers me to an Essay by Albert Jay Nock called "Isiah's Job."
Basically, the "Remnant" is the person who stands up to the bullshit notwithstanding it's short-term futility. The "Remnant" is the one who knows their actions will not be heard by the "intelligentsia." Instead, his value to society comes alive after the destruction. Here is Nock's paraphrase of the instructions given to Isiah:
“Tell them what is wrong, and why and what is going to happen unless they have a change of heart and straighten up. Don’t mince matters. Make it clear that they are positively down to their last chance. Give it to them good and strong and keep on giving it to them. I suppose perhaps I ought to tell you,” He added, “that it won’t do any good. The official class and their intelligentsia will turn up their noses at you and the masses will not even listen. They will all keep on in their own ways until they carry everything down to destruction, and you will probably be lucky if you get out with your life.”
So, Nock went on to describe why the so called "Remnant" matters:
“you do not get the point. There is a Remnant there that you know nothing about. They are obscure, unorganized, inarticulate, each one rubbing along as best he can. They need to be encouraged and braced up because when everything has gone completely to the dogs, they are the ones who will come back and build up a new society; and meanwhile, your preaching will reassure them and keep them hanging on. Your job is to take care of the Remnant, so be off now and set about it.”
Michael.
You are correct. I know from my own experience that I have in all good faith thought that some things made a difference. I am sure there are people who honestly believe that their products make a difference ... perhaps that was the case although the argument is somewhat weakened by the non-earthbound price, for such a product it would imply a rather good understanding of high end audio mentality... All that IMO, of course ...
NorthSky
Major Contributor
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ASR and WBF and AVS and gearslutz would remain...among few others. But 95% would disappear into oblivion...including metropolishifi, universeneon and ultrazipload. It's a pejorative way of speech, because first we would need proofs, and then a system of audio laws. And there reigns the main problem; most people are outlaws...even the judges. Some are politically affiliated, others corrupted by the dollar sign. The entire system would have to be rebuilt from scratch, and without any prejudice, no corruption, and no inequalities. Name a country where they have that and I'm flying first thing in the morning, one way ticket only.
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