End Game Speakers - The Quest Continues

[poopy]

Your thread made me rethink stuff but I'm pretty much still in the Genelec camp

You need a customised version of the 8361a with a Be tweeter

 

[Pearljam5000]

You need a customised version of the 8361a with a Be tweeter

It's my dream speaker

 

[poopy]

It's my dream speaker

What about a pair of Focal trio 11Be in a customised aluminium cabinet with a bit of EQ to tame the highs?

 

[Ron Texas]

This thread has caused me to reflect on the end game topic. I'm in a different boat from the OP for several reasons. The main one is I am in a 14'x18' room with a dormer ceiling so hitting high SPL's isn't an objective. Listening position is roughly 7.5' or midfield which means really large speakers are not on the menu. I'm also wary of buying something expensive from a boutique manufacturer, especially if it is complex and contains many proprietary components. With my LS50's and subs working as well as they do, I'll just have to blow the money on luxury travel or whatever.

 

[Pearljam5000]

This thread has caused me to reflect on the end game topic. I'm in a different boat from the OP for several reasons. The main one is I am in a 14'x18' room with a dormer ceiling so hitting high SPL's isn't an objective. Listening position is roughly 7.5' or midfield which means really large speakers are not on the menu. I'm also wary of buying something expensive from a boutique manufacturer, especially if it is complex and contains many proprietary components. With my LS50's and subs working as well as they do, I'll just have to blow the money on luxury travel or whatever.

Just upgrade to the LS60 Or KEF Blade

 

[Ron Texas]

Just upgrade to the LS60 Or KEF Blade

LOL. Keith said somewhere LS50's with subs are close to the LS60. The Blade is pushing into the too big category. In this game it's hard to do a meaningful upgrade If what you have is already very good.

 

[AudioJester]

LOL. Keith said somewhere LS50's with subs are close to the LS60. The Blade is pushing into the too big category. In this game it's hard to do a meaningful upgrade If what you have is already very good.

Honestly your setup with LS50 and Rhythmik subs is allready SOTA. The only thing you could improve is "loudness", and if that is not a concern, your done...

I dont think anyone "blows the money". The guys buying super expensive audio are buying well within their means. Maybe not PJ and the 8381

 

[MAB]

Just upgrade to the LS60 Or KEF Blade

Or maybe be happy with the good sound you can get on a budget. This is particularly good advice if you don’t have lots of disposable cash to spend on luxury. End game isn’t attainable for most people, and many get caught in the upgrade trap of endless dissatisfaction. There are hundreds of speakers I would be happy with for the rest of my time, probably even more than I can know. My experience, end game is an interesting journey and should be thought of as journey rather than destination and will likely always be evolving moving target if you want to chase it.

 

[Ron Texas]

Honestly your setup with LS50 and Rhythmik subs is allready SOTA. The only thing you could improve is "loudness", and if that is not a concern, your done...

I dont think anyone "blows the money". The guys buying super expensive audio are buying well within their means. Maybe not PJ and the 8381

Blowing money is just an expression. I am one of those people who find it easier to spend big bucks on experiences rather than durable goods. For those of us with the time to travel the bias is towards experiences. For someone with a good income but very little vacation time the bias is going to be durable goods.

 

[caught gesture]

End game isn’t attainable for most people

Surely ”end game” for any individual is based on available funds for what is, ostensibly, a luxury product. If end game refers to the very best audio reproduction, then I’d have a dedicated listening space designed by a world-renowned acoustic expert. In this thread we are talking about someone with a limited budget. We are fortunate to have eq, room correction and the like now where achieving an incredible audio experience is within reach of so many more people than a decade ago.

 

[MKR]

Surely ”end game” for any individual is based on available funds for what is, ostensibly, a luxury product. If end game refers to the very best audio reproduction, then I’d have a dedicated listening space designed by a world-renowned acoustic expert. In this thread we are talking about someone with a limited budget. We are fortunate to have eq, room correction and the like now where achieving an incredible audio experience is within reach of so many more people than a decade ago.

For me the definition of end game is highest performance possible within my budget. Would it be the end game for some that had a higher budget? Maybe yes, maybe no. What I have learned throughout this journey is once you hit around $10, maybe $15k, sound QUALITY improvements become incrementally smaller and you start hitting serious diminishing returns. But sound QUANTITY, well, that cost is only limited by how much output you want

 

[Ron Texas]

Surely ”end game” for any individual is based on available funds for what is, ostensibly, a luxury product. If end game refers to the very best audio reproduction, then I’d have a dedicated listening space designed by a world-renowned acoustic expert. In this thread we are talking about someone with a limited budget. We are fortunate to have eq, room correction and the like now where achieving an incredible audio experience is within reach of so many more people than a decade ago.

Just move in with Dr. Toole.

 

[AudioJester]

Blowing money is just an expression. I am one of those people who find it easier to spend big bucks on experiences rather than durable goods. For those of us with the time to travel the bias is towards experiences. For someone with a good income but very little vacation time the bias is going to be durable goods.

Lol. Do you think MKR and others with cash for audio are not travelling? Not spending money on experiences?

I think we just need to enjoy what we have, and not extrapolate anothers journey through our own eyes.
We are talking about picking speakers not how to prioritise spending.....

 

[Bruce Morgen]

What I have learned throughout this journey is once you hit around $10, maybe $15k, sound QUALITY improvements become incrementally smaller and you start hitting serious diminishing returns.

In terms of readily audible improvement, IMO nowadays that point of diminishing lives somewhere between $2-3K USD, assuming a near- or mid-field listening environment and relatively modest SPL expectations. Bigger spaces -- and/or rock & roll stage volume levels -- are another matter, especially if you're expecting fill such a large space with only the L+R main speakers sans sub(s) or other ancillary gear.

 

[Anton D]

Did anybody mention the used market yet?

You could kill it for your budget!

 

[kemmler3D]

once you hit around $10, maybe $15k, sound QUALITY improvements become incrementally smaller and you start hitting serious diminishing returns. But sound QUANTITY, well, that cost is only limited by how much output you want

That is a pretty good way to sum it up, I think. Can you even find speakers that are 2x, 5x or 10x higher quality than D&D 8C? Seems doubtful even if you are willing to spend 10x more for a 2x improvement. But 10x bigger, 10x more expensive, and 10x louder... sure.

 

[Ron Texas]

Lol. Do you think MKR and others with cash for audio are not travelling? Not spending money on experiences?

I think we just need to enjoy what we have, and not extrapolate anothers journey through our own eyes.
We are talking about picking speakers not how to prioritise spending.....

Who are you to put words in my mouth and tell me what to post here?

 

[EdW]

That is a pretty good way to sum it up, I think. Can you even find speakers that are 2x, 5x or 10x higher quality than D&D 8C? Seems doubtful even if you are willing to spend 10x more for a 2x improvement. But 10x bigger, 10x more expensive, and 10x louder... sure.

It’s actually worse than you suggest. Very expensive loudspeakers are produced in such small quantities that the manufacturer cannot afford the R&D to get the engineering right nor can he afford the tooling for medium volume production. It just doesn’t make economic sense. So the very expensive loudspeaker may even underperform the well engineered medium volume product, but certainly doesn’t represent any worthwhile increase in performance for the vastly inflated sales price. The YouTube Audiophool pundits love expensive gear of course!

 

[MattHooper]

There are hundreds of speakers I would be happy with for the rest of my time, probably even more than I can know.

Perhaps I’m cursed, but my situation is sort of the opposite. I am endlessly fascinated with listening to different loudspeakers to check out how they sound. But when it comes to loud speakers I would actually buy or more specifically would want to sit down and listen to in my home for long periods of time, and that list gets very short relative to the amount of speakers out there. I might’ve said that I’m too picky for my own good, except that even a very short list from the available speakers means I’ve been able to own many different speakers that I’ve enjoyed immensely. But most speakers I encounter don’t fully grab me enough to make me want on them.

 

[pablolie]

When someone talks about "end game" ambitions, they are still chasing the rainbow. What I learned from going "end game" a while back is that it leaves you still wondering if there's something you can improve, or you question your choice 6 months later.

If I am honest, my end game chain looked great, but deep inside I was a bit underwhelmed by the marginal improvements - when gear is already very good, and when the music is great, hey, might as well stay put. My "end game" gear sounded great in a big listening room, but 15 years later, after divorce and with a smaller place, it just didn't work and was too big and overwhelming. I then went through a number of changes/upgrades for a few years, until I settled with what I have right now - and yes, LS50 with a great amp and a sub or two will truly work brilliantly, thank you very much. And I did own $12k bookshelf speakers to "upgrade" from LS50 I acquired in 2013... and after a few years, I went back to the LS50.