End Game Speakers - The Quest Continues

[MKR]

Is this a 50-track playlist? I am going to try to replicate in Apple Music. Thanks for sharing...some artists I have never heard.

It’s a big one. I know all of these tracks very well and do not necessarily use all of them, but the variance gives me choices based upon what I am hearing or need to hear from a given system, allows me to ferret out specific strengths/issues.

 

[Pearljam5000]

What other systems have you heard to compare to your beloved Genelecs?

I've heard enough brands/monitors /speakers to know what I like .
To me they had the best tonality and disappeared completely .
Obviously it's just my personal taste.
Some might say they're too Analytical and cold sounding .
Plus I prefer pro audio gear over hifi gear

 

[srrxr71]

That’s OK, we can disagree and still be friends … But, maybe some misunderstanding. I never stated zero treatment and that I will not be taking appropriate basic acoustic “precautions“, been in this game for far too long to fully dismiss that aspect. But what I am telling you is my listening space will look like a living space, not a darn recording studio! It is simply not necessary with modern active DSP based designs and EQ options. But some small amount of treatment? Sure, you can’t defeat physics.

I think you are right if you sit pretty close though to keep the direct sound dominant. You will know when you check your rt60 for example.

 

[srrxr71]

I've heard enough brands/monitors /speakers to know what I like .
To me they had the best tonality and disappeared completely .
Obviously it's just my personal taste.
Some might say they're too Analytical and cold sounding .

They can sound “cold and analytical” but you can dial in your own target curve. But you can do that in any eq app for any monitors you have.

 

[Pearljam5000]

They can sound “cold and analytical” but you can dial in your own target curve. But you can do that in any eq app for any monitors you have.

Not sure you can make them sound like Sonus Faber

 

[MKR]

Not sure you can make them sound like Sonus Faber

Ha! Good one … I suppose if you want to make the Genelecs sound broken … with that said the SFs are FAR easier on the eyes (well, my eyes anyway)

 

[Purité Audio]

Have you seen the latest from ‘he who shall not be named’?
Keith

 

[Vacceo]

I've heard enough brands/monitors /speakers to know what I like .
To me they had the best tonality and disappeared completely .
Obviously it's just my personal taste.
Some might say they're too Analytical and cold sounding .
Plus I prefer pro audio gear over hifi gear

You can EQ to taste, hence they will be as "dry", "sour", "spicy" or whatever you want them to sound.

 

[dkinric]

This thread is hilarious.

MKR: Hey guys, doing something cool, thought I'd share my journey if you're interested
ASR: No, you're doing it wrong, you need to do it this way and choose these speakers that I like...

Not unexpected I guess. @MKR , thanks for putting yourself out there again. It seems there are many opinions on how to spend $30k on speakers.

 

[Pearljam5000]

This thread is hilarious.

MKR: Hey guys, doing something cool, thought I'd share my journey if you're interested
ASR: No, you're doing it wrong, you need to do it this way and listen to these speakers that I like...

Not unexpected I guess. @MKR , thanks for putting yourself out there again. It seems there are many opinions on how to spend $30k on speakers.

People care.

 

[srrxr71]

Not sure you can make them sound like Sonus Faber

I don’t know what special about Sonus Faber? They look great.

For me at least sitting closer I think the point source aspect has been a real game changer. I’ve had speakers that were very unforgiving of any posture change.

I’ve been noticing that a lot of directivity plots and they tend to be decent in the horizontal plane. Somewhat forgiving of a slight head turn. However they tend to be very unforgiving of the slightest change of vertical seating position.

This is not just theory in my mind. It’s just the theory which explained to me finally why as much as I loved the focal solo 6 be why they kept taunting me with weird phasey effects every time I changed my ear height relationship with them.

I think (not 100% sure) that tonality can be mostly corrected to taste. Not 100% sure because the issue I always have with my Ones is a suck out between 1Khz and 2Khz. It’s has always been a problem with them and the current recliner chair I use to listen.

I thought initially it was a deep bass issue. It is not. I learned that when I got a pair of huge Rhythmiks in here.

The perceptual issue (thanks to Genelec support for using that exact term) was actually that suck out in the midrange.

What “fixed” it? The Trinnov nova did. I don’t know what kind of voodoo it does but now that suck out is gone and also the bass hits so hard without the Rhythmiks.

It’s so much that I don’t even use the Rhytmiks for a couple of reasons. One is that the bass got too overpowering for me and probably my room also. Especially being on the second floor. Parts of the floor in the corners just shake like crazy. Second reason is that despite my neighbors living in separate houses about 30 feet away they weren’t too happy about it. So I will have to save them for when I can set up on the ground floor and I have more separation from neighbors.

So there are some factors that are difficult to correct.

 

[tw 2022]

My expectations are just fine where they are … and indeed, my “end game” is going to be different than your “end game”. And that is OK

absolutely, here's wishing you a happy journey...

 

[morpheusX]

I understand that state of the art drivers don't automatically make a good speaker, but i like to see companies asking for big bucks using them.

In that regard, i find these speakers very interesting:
- https://www.presentdayproduction.com/
- https://vcllabs.com/vcl-ex27 (Concept only)
- https://philharmonicaudio.com/HT-Tower.html

 

[steve59]

I was under the general thought that ASR was a forum that hifi lovers on a 'paper route' budget could come and feel good about their systems, that measurements matter and hearing differences are imagined. A $30k pair of speakers does go against the grain of ASR where dsp is the great equalizer. All things considered I'm really impressed this thread remains civil and isn't filled with the 'spins crowd' (not a judgement) telling us how uninformed we are for showing interest in such audiophile nonsense.

 

[Purité Audio]

ASR is I believe a measurement led forum, surely it makes sense from the perspective of sound quality to only spend what is necessary?
Speakers are one area where there are tangible differences,but there are genuinely sota speakers that are relatively inexpensive, btw DSP only really works on already fine measuring loudspeakers.
Keith

 

[srrxr71]

I was under the general thought that ASR was a forum that hifi lovers on a 'paper route' budget could come and feel good about their systems, that measurements matter and hearing differences are imagined. A $30k pair of speakers does go against the grain of ASR where dsp is the great equalizer. All things considered I'm really impressed this thread remains civil and isn't filled with the 'spins crowd' (not a judgement) telling us how uninformed we are for showing interest in such audiophile nonsense.

On some level you are right. Going against the grain of high priced poor performing audiophile junk.


Today’s audio scene is amazing. $120 DAC beating $10k DACs.

Speakers like Kali IN-5/8 getting 95% of end game at $399.

But there are people who want bigger setups for bigger rooms and the costs rise exponentially. The OP has a particularly big room and also he wants to prep for future HT. So the distances get bigger and the requirements go to another level.

If we are talking about “end game” for desktop use you can get there with not a lot of funds. However if you scale up it goes crazy.

There are also scientific advances that just took a lot of work and research like cardiod bass and point source which are going to cost (although some KEF and Kali models keep it reasonable). But at least you are paying for actual science driven advancement. So it actually is bringing costs down.

A lot of folks here are focused on the desktop case. In that case we have recommendations which don’t cost too much. But once the balance of direct/reflected sound changes due to requirements of multiple simultaneous listening positions then a lot of factors come into play that necessarily would cost a lot to address.

 

[Duke]

I genuinely do hope this journey is helpful to everyone (even if I have to tolerate what is already some “grumpy” folks coming out of the woodwork, didn’t take long, far too predictable ).

Yeah, didn't take long for ye olde signal-to-noise ratio issue to crop up.

A $30k pair of speakers does go against the grain of ASR where dsp is the great equalizer.

And yet the founder of ASR uses passive speakers that retailed for $22k in 2008, which after inflation would be north of $31k today. Maybe ASR would not be ruined adopting a bit more live-and-let-live "grain".

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Sorry, try again, I think was related to my privacy settings …

Open Qobuz

open.qobuz.com

Damn the technology. I can get the playlist on Qobuz on my phone. Just can't get it onto the hi-fi via Sonos!

 

[Vacceo]

I was under the general thought that ASR was a forum that hifi lovers on a 'paper route' budget could come and feel good about their systems, that measurements matter and hearing differences are imagined. A $30k pair of speakers does go against the grain of ASR where dsp is the great equalizer. All things considered I'm really impressed this thread remains civil and isn't filled with the 'spins crowd' (not a judgement) telling us how uninformed we are for showing interest in such audiophile nonsense.

I´m quite sure I´d not get bad reactions if I stated that I got a pair of KEF Blades or Perlisten S7T Limited Edition.

 

[Laserjock]

JBL 590s, Simaudio P5/W5, Wiim Pro, JDS Labs Atom + DAC

Note I have had several high end systems in my audiophile career, but due to crazy life circumstances past ~7 years (including a stint living overseas), I have been in audio wasteland and the above system has just been to get me by until the arrival of the “end game” … but for the money, the above system is excellent and a lot of fun (albeit far from where it needs to be for my long term satisfaction)

That’s right. Old brain isn’t the same as it used to be.
What are you looking forward to listening to the most in Tampa?

I remember you were wanting a cardioid speaker but not sure if that was a requirement or just a leaning at the time.

Remember that Ralph Waldo Emerson quote might not translate as well in this situation.