Dutch & Dutch 8c Review

[nastypoker]

Good experience dealing with D&D support?

Are you able to disclose the cost? If not, no problem, of course.

So far, pretty good. I am waiting on their response before posting details.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is each amp calibrated differently at the factory ?

 

[Talal]

Recently had the pleasure of demoing and purchasing my 8Cs from Keith of Purité Audio in London. Great experience, knowledgable and informative without being pushy, realistic listening environment, and really tries to help you make the decision that's right for you, suggest a visit.

Since purchasing, I've loved my new speakers, but like many, found the lack of physical volume controller/remote irritating for a substantial purchase.
Solutions like rooExtend enable control of Roon using various physical controllers, but require a raspberryPi to run, and I didn't want an extra device to complicate things.
As I run Roon Server on an old Mac, I came up with a solution using a Microsoft Surface Dial as a bluetooth controller, and Better Touch Tool on the Mac (a brilliant piece of automation software for Mac).

The first step is to connect the Surface Dial to your Mac. After installing Better Touch Tool (BTT), you can import my settings below.

Microsoft Surface Dial.bttpreset

drive.google.com

Disclaimer: I adapted code shared by BTT users and the developer/picked up some basics to make this work, but I am no developer, so this solution is limited, but it works for me on my Mac that's used just for Roon Server and music related tasks. If someone wants to improve on it, that will be great!

The script under Generic Devices > Surface Dial provides for double press, single press, right jog, left jog, hold press and jog right (nextTrack trigger), and hold press and jog left (previousTrack trigger). These triggers are recognised in various applications I've added categories for in the left hand panel of BTT (though you can configure your own desired applications).

Double press is also a top level trigger (meaning it can be picked up in any application, though if the trigger also has an application specific action, that will take precedence - which is useful to this project). By default it delays the next action by 0.3 seconds. This is as the script is flawed and recognises a double press followed by a single press whenever there is a double press.. so the delay allows the single press to be registered before opening Roon where it would pause/play (can configure whatever app you want to open).

I then have Roon specific triggers. When Roon is open, these map Roon keyboard shortcuts to the triggers:
single press = play/pause keyboard shortcut for Roon,
right turn = volume up keyboard shortcut - rotation linked to volume,
left turn = volume down,
press and hold whilst turning right = next track,
press and hold whilst turning left = previous track.

The press and hold actions have a delay next action by 1.5 seconds.. again this is a work around for the broken script, as otherwise pressing is recognised as multiple button presses, and triggers unwanted actions. so you have 1.5 seconds to release the button when changing track, during which other actions won't be recognised. seems to work ok though. You can change the duration.

A Double Press when Roon is opens the Menu Bar Controller for Sonos app for Mac. Here again I've configured the various Surface Dial button presses/rotation triggers to activate personal keyboard shortcuts.
Double pressing returns to Roon.

So basically the Double Press cycles between applications, starting with Roon.

This works well for my old Mac that is used specifically for Roon server, but may be problematic for your use case due to the script limitations.

You can configure the cycle and keyboard actions to your own application preferences/ cycle through more apps if you'd like.

Hope it's useful to someone.

 

[Talal]

Hi All,

My 8Cs are placed in a living room/dining room which makes positioning tricky.
As a solution I've designed a frame that will protect and hide the speakers in 2 stools on either side of my dining table, and lift them up to ear height using 2 synchronised standing desk actuators for each speaker.

I know the table side positioning is problematic in its own right (thought the 8Cs already handle this compromise well). My question is whether the frame design below will resonate or otherwise interact poorly with the speaker or should be fine.

The frame is built of a number of rectangular tubes (likely either aluminium or mild steel). I'll try to keep the wall of each as thick as possible. These will be welded together and the openings of each hollow tube welded shut.
On each side of the speaker you have an actuator (central), flanked by 2 rectangular sections that are a little taller than the speaker which are connected to the actuator itself by a 17cm hollow rectangle.
These 2 sections are each connected to the other side by another section, with a 7mm or so thick metal platform for the speaker to rest on (took this thickness from sound anchor stand design).
The top of each side of the frame is also connected by a hollow tube.

The gap for the 8Cs in the frame is a little larger than the measurements of each speaker - around 30cm wide, 52cm tall.

The sides of the frame do rise with the speaker, but are designed to not obstruct the speaker side ports.

Thanks, appreciate any thoughts here, and will be happy to share the finished design and any findings when I'm done.

 

[Sal1950]

Thanks, appreciate any thoughts here, and will be happy to share the finished design and any findings when I'm done.

Welcome to ASR Talal!
That looks to be a very Kool innovation for hiding your speakers when not in use.
I look forward to seeing some photos of the completed designs.
Many members are always looking for ways to make their systems more visually acceptable to
their partners and others.
Good luck with everything.

 

[Talal]

Welcome to ASR Talal!
That looks to be a very Kool innovation for hiding your speakers when not in use.
I look forward to seeing some photos of the completed designs.
Many members are always looking for ways to make their systems more visually acceptable to
their partners and others.
Good luck with everything.

Thanks Sal
Haha you know the aesthetic partner pressure..

 

[Se7enAtx]

Hi All,

My 8Cs are placed in a living room/dining room which makes positioning tricky.
As a solution I've designed a frame that will protect and hide the speakers in 2 stools on either side of my dining table, and lift them up to ear height using 2 synchronised standing desk actuators for each speaker.

I know the table side positioning is problematic in its own right (thought the 8Cs already handle this compromise well). My question is whether the frame design below will resonate or otherwise interact poorly with the speaker or should be fine.

The frame is built of a number of rectangular tubes (likely either aluminium or mild steel). I'll try to keep the wall of each as thick as possible. These will be welded together and the openings of each hollow tube welded shut.
On each side of the speaker you have an actuator (central), flanked by 2 rectangular sections that are a little taller than the speaker which are connected to the actuator itself by a 17cm hollow rectangle.
These 2 sections are each connected to the other side by another section, with a 7mm or so thick metal platform for the speaker to rest on (took this thickness from sound anchor stand design).
The top of each side of the frame is also connected by a hollow tube.

The gap for the 8Cs in the frame is a little larger than the measurements of each speaker - around 30cm wide, 52cm tall.

The sides of the frame do rise with the speaker, but are designed to not obstruct the speaker side ports.

Thanks, appreciate any thoughts here, and will be happy to share the finished design and any findings when I'm done.

This looks like it will be a fun project and I look forward to seeing your progress.

The main recommendation that I would make is to consider filling the structural tubes with sand or shot to further deaden and or reduce "ringing". The 8c, as you know, puts out a lot of energy and the hollow tubes will act like a tuning fork. Anything that you can do to add mass to the structure and or isolate the energy away from the structure will be of benefit.

 

[Talal]

This looks like it will be a fun project and I look forward to seeing your progress.

The main recommendation that I would make is to consider filling the structural tubes with sand or shot to further deaden and or reduce "ringing". The 8c, as you know, puts out a lot of energy and the hollow tubes will act like a tuning fork. Anything that you can do to add mass to the structure and or isolate the energy away from the structure will be of benefit.

Thank you, I'll make sure to fill the tubes if I take that path. Now also considering an alternative design (with help from an engineer friend) using pulleys that wouldn't obstruct the speakers or have much metal.

 

[Emlin]

Thank you, I'll make sure to fill the tubes if I take that path. Now also considering an alternative design (with help from an engineer friend) using pulleys that wouldn't obstruct the speakers or have much metal.

Divorce might be easier.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Hi All,

My 8Cs are placed in a living room/dining room which makes positioning tricky.
As a solution I've designed a frame that will protect and hide the speakers in 2 stools on either side of my dining table, and lift them up to ear height using 2 synchronised standing desk actuators for each speaker.

The sides of the frame do rise with the speaker, but are designed to not obstruct the speaker side ports.

Thanks, appreciate any thoughts here, and will be happy to share the finished design and any findings when I'm done.

Now also considering an alternative design (with help from an engineer friend) using pulleys that wouldn't obstruct the speakers or have much metal.

Good idea to make your elevator platform without sides, so that nothing will obstruct the cardioid pattern of your speakers. Sounds like a fun project.

 

[Talal]

Divorce might be easier.

Getting a dedicated listening room may be cheaper than divorce
TBH I'm generally worse in terms of demands for minimalism, but for some reason my lady gets really jealous of the attention I pay the speakers, doesn't seem to care about women friends, only the speakers trigger her jealousy.

 

[Dialectic]

Getting a dedicated listening room may be cheaper than divorce
TBH I'm generally worse in terms of demands for minimalism, but for some reason my lady gets really jealous of the attention I pay the speakers, doesn't seem to care about women friends, only the speakers trigger her jealousy.

Do you play golf or have other hobbies?

 

[Talal]

Do you play golf or have other hobbies?

Crashed my motorcycle, which reminds me I can threaten to get a bigger bike next time she's troubled by the speakers

 

[Dialectic]

Crashed my motorcycle, which reminds me I can threaten to get a bigger bike next time she's troubled by the speakers

Good thinking! Hope you are ok after the crash....

 

[Talal]

Good thinking! Hope you are ok after the crash....

Thanks, only lasting damage is excessive time and money spent on audio setup

 

[Talal]

Speaker stool mechanism video

Making progress on speaker stools mentioned previously, mechanism and frame done. Next need to get a carpenter to put together a stool that hides them when not in use.

They sound far better now they’re at the right height, ikea tables until now.

May do a v2 where you don’t see the frame rise with the speakers at some point but that’s presently beyond my capabilities to design.

 

[Dialectic]

View attachment 376941
Speaker stool mechanism video

Making progress on speaker stools mentioned previously, mechanism and frame done. Next need to get a carpenter to put together a stool that hides them when not in use.

They sound far better now they’re at the right height, ikea tables until now.

May do a v2 where you don’t see the frame rise with the speakers at some point but that’s presently beyond my capabilities to design.

Nice! I like the lowback chairs, too.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

Speaker stool mechanism video

Cool

 

[Penelinfi]

It would need something to protect the front when shrunk, but not act too much as a baffle when the speaker is in use. Some kind of grid with cloth? Wooden slats?

 

[YSC]

View attachment 376941
Speaker stool mechanism video

Making progress on speaker stools mentioned previously, mechanism and frame done. Next need to get a carpenter to put together a stool that hides them when not in use.

They sound far better now they’re at the right height, ikea tables until now.

May do a v2 where you don’t see the frame rise with the speakers at some point but that’s presently beyond my capabilities to design.

somehow I prefer how they looked in a normal stand. but out of my budget anyway