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Dual KEF kc62 vs. single larger sub?

Which would you recommend?


  • Total voters
    22
The KF92 can output 95@20Hz anechoic which is nice
And other than pipe organ, is there any live acoustic musical instrument that outputs 95db @ 20 Hz?

No, not even close.

So since I'm interested in the accurate reproduction of music originally produced by unamplified acoustic instruments, I simply don't need any more sub capability than that.
 
Great discussion - I really appreciate the feedback and am learning quite a bit. I have browsed @sweetchaos ’s excellent subwoofer comparison tool a lot as well since starting the thread. I did actually try a Lyngdorf BW-3 sub, but it had a flaw in the power supply and necessitated an expensive return process through the dealer I used, which soured me on trying a new Lyngdorf sub. Really leaning towards the single sub at this point and then considering the upgrade to dual down the road.
 
This talk is mostly from subwoofer fanatics that seem to think that majority of people have huge listening rooms and are perfectly happy dropping a couple of butt-ugly black boxes size of a fridge in their living rooms.

In reality, these "lifestyle" (not butt-ugly) subwoofer tick all the boxes for majority of people in Europe at least.
So much this - a lot of people (not just in audio) think that their use case is THE use case.
 
I have 2x KC62 ( with the LS60s) and I am ordering 2 of Thorbjørn’s for the Mantas, perhaps I can write to you with my thoughts?
The KC62s are extremely neat I sit three metres away and bass is formidable, but personal preference …
Keith
Excellent!

I have LS60s (blue) and one KC62 (titanium). Absolutely love this setup!
I keep hesitating getting a second KC62.
(I have a pair of KEF LSX and a KUBE 10b in my bedroom, too.)

Is it worth doing?
What sort of difference did adding a second KC62 make to the overall sound?
I listen to a lot of orchestral music, opera and choral music.

Should I pull the trigger? I have a KC62 sitting in my KEF queue.
 
This talk is mostly from subwoofer fanatics that seem to think that majority of people have huge listening rooms and are perfectly happy dropping a couple of butt-ugly black boxes size of a fridge in their living rooms.

In reality, these "lifestyle" (not butt-ugly) subwoofer tick all the boxes for majority of people in Europe at least.
New York City apartments, too. There’s no room for big speakers that need a lot of space around them.

I had a KEF KUBE 10b in my living room for a while. FUGLY. Ended up putting it in a corner in my bedroom connected to LSX.
Now I have a KEF KC62 with my LS60s. Perfect. More than enough output.

My wife also has aesthetic input as far as audio gear goes. She likes the way our KEF speakers look.
Where these KEF subs fail in this case is output. The KF92 can output 95@20Hz anechoic which is nice, but now let's put 4 meters between sub and listener without room reinforcement and it's laughable. Now, put couple of those in 30m² room and you are in business.
I rarely listen to music above 85 or 90 db, which is plenty loud.
Actually, I would rarely listen above that level, if ever.
I have neighbors above, below and on one side. I have to co-exist with them.
There’s no underground, sound isolated man-cave in my future.
 
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I have LS60's and one KC62 in a medium sized room, kitchen/living room that is open on each side. Often my wife and neighbours think the sound level and bass is excessive. I am not going measurements and such here, only by personal responses. Everyone that listens "thinks" the system is stellar. In the end, I suppose that is what matters?
 
It isn't even in question, going with two small subs will never provide enough extension or SPL. I used to have two small REl T-Zero subs in a very small room and they were ok, but it was only a 12 by 12 room, so very small.

I moved to using two SVS SB 2000 Pro subs in the same space and they absolutely lifted the experience orders of magnitude higher. I would never again ask two small subs to do more than they are designed for.
 
Excellent!

I have LS60s (blue) and one KC62 (titanium). Absolutely love this setup!
I keep hesitating getting a second KC62.
(I have a pair of KEF LSX and a KUBE 10b in my bedroom, too.)

Is it worth doing?
What sort of difference did adding a second KC62 make to the overall sound?
I listen to a lot of orchestral music, opera and choral music.

Should I pull the trigger? I have a KC62 sitting in my KEF queue.
If you use a single KC62, it probably will not move as much air as a pair of LS60s.

The total surface area of all of all eight woofers in the LS60s is approximately 667 sq. cm.

The total service area of both woofers in a KC62 is approximately 321 sq. cm., which is about 48% of the surface area of the LS60s woofers.

My guess is that the KC62 has longer throw, which will make up for some of this deficiency, but whether the throw is long enough to make up for all of the deficiency I do not know. If not, then you may end up with worse bass response using a single KC62 assuming that you high-pass the LS60s.

If you really have your heart set on a single KC62, you may want to investigate running the LS60s full range in the "Less" Bass extension mode without high-passing them, then use the the KC62 to fill in the lows. That way, you will be getting bass from all eight of the LS60 woofers in addition to the two 6.5" woofers in the KC62.

A potential issue, though, is that the KEF software does not provide much in the way of subwoofer tunability. So, it may or may not work well depending on your room modes and the positioning of the KC62 with respect to the LS60s, which affects the phase relationship between them. KEF does provide a 0 or 180 degree phase switch, but such a switch has never been adequate in systems in which I have tried to use one. You could, though, run an external DSP unit which would give you a greater level of tunability. With external DSP I think you could make it work well.
 
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I think its better to not to buy the LS60 while its a very good speaker. there is no EQ and you cant tune the bass by moving the bass section of the speaker. The latter is true of any active speaker for sure.
I personally would always want some EQ iwhen spending this kind of money and depending on room a sub or two.
 
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Always go for two subs, it will help with roommodes. I'd just get two cheaper 12" subs.
 
I think its better to not to buy the LS60 while its a very good speaker. there is no EQ and you cant tune the bass by moving the bass section of the speaker. The latter is true of any active speaker for sure.
I personally would always want some EQ iwhen spending this kind of money and depending on room a sub or two.
I stream to my LS60s from a WiiM through a Raspberry Pi running CamillaDSP. That way I have all of the equalization available I could ever want.

Even though this adds cost (less than $300), all in I'm around $5,300. I think is a good value considering the sound quality.

My office is fairly small, about 3.6m x 4.2m x 3.7m, and the LS60s definitely do not need a sub at the SPL I listen. Equalized for room correction, they are flat down to 20 Hz. The bass sounds fantastic. Together, all eight 5.25" woofers have almost as much surface area as a 12" subwoofer.

For a larger room, or high SPL, they definitely would benefit from a sub, though, due to the protection circuitry KEF implemented, which rolls off the low frequencies at higher SPL.
 
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I stream to my LS60s from a WiiM through a Raspberry Pi running CamillaDSP. That way I have all of the equalization available I could ever want.

Even though this adds cost (less than $300), all in I'm around $5,300. I think is a good value considering the sound quality.

My office is fairly small, about 3.6m x 4.2m x 3.7m, and the LS60s definitely do not need a sub at the SPL I listen. Equalized for room correction, they are flat down to 20 Hz. The bass sounds fantastic. Together, all eight 5.25" woofers have almost as much surface area as a 12" subwoofer.

For a larger room, or high SPL, they definitely would benefit from a sub, though, due to the protection circuitry KEF implemented, which rolls off the low frequencies higher SPL.
The eq is to correct in room response not the review graphs you see by the likes or Erin. The eq reduces bass response giving me a fairly flat in room measurements (umik1 and rew). The approach allows the speakers and sub to be close to the wall without bass boom.
The idea of a sub is more around location. In my room for example the best bass quality is off to the left. Not something I could do with the ls60. I am using ls50 meta’s with a single sub location off to the left.

of course I could treat the room and move the speakers more central to achieve similar results with the LS60s. That would adversely reduce the practicality of the room.

Hope that helps you understand my view point.
 
If you use a single KC62, it probably will not move as much air as a pair of LS60s.

The total surface area of all of all eight woofers in the LS60s is approximately 667 sq. cm.

The total service area of both woofers in a KC62 is approximately 321 sq. cm., which is about 48% of the surface area of the LS60s woofers.

My guess is that the KC62 has longer throw, which will make up for some of this deficiency, but whether the throw is long enough to make up for all of the deficiency I do not know. If not, then you may end up with worse bass response using a single KC62 assuming that you high-pass the LS60s.

If you really have your heart set on a single KC62, you may want to investigate running the LS60s full range in the "Less" Bass extension mode without high-passing them, then use the the KC62 to fill in the lows. That way, you will be getting bass from all eight of the LS60 woofers in addition to the two 6.5" woofers in the KC62.

A potential issue, though, is that the KEF software does not provide much in the way of subwoofer tunability. So, it may or may not work well depending on your room modes and the positioning of the KC62 with respect to the LS60s, which affects the phase relationship between them. KEF does provide a 0 or 180 degree phase switch, but such a switch has never been adequate in systems in which I have tried to use one. You could, though, run an external DSP unit which would give you a greater level of tunability. With external DSP I think you could make it work well.
I’ve had a KC62 for nearly 2 years. It’s phenomenal! With certain recordings, the bass is intense.

About 15 minutes ago I pulled the trigger on a second KC62. So, in a few days I’ll see.
I think with the music I listen to… classical from medieval to contemporary, mainly orchestral (late romantic and twentieth century) , opera, Franco-Flemish polyphony, organ music and jazz… I think a second sub will add more detail and open the soundstage.

Can’t wait!
 
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