KEF KC62 wired or wireless

[justqanh]

Hi there,

I just bought two pairs of KC62 subs for my LS60, and they came with the KW1 wireless kit. I'm trying to decide between using wired and wireless modes.

I've noticed that when both subs are set to use KW1 in the app, the sub gain increases by 6 dB by default. What is the reason for this? Is there some kind of signal loss with wireless transmission that needs to be compensated for by increasing the sub gain? Is the assumed loss of signal affect sound quality in any way? If that's the case, would it be better for me to stick with wired mode? I still prefer wireless for the convenience, but meaningful improvement in sound quality is my priority.

Thanks for the helping hands.

 

[kemmler3D]

Hi there,

I just bought two pairs of KC62 subs for my LS60, and they came with the KW1 wireless kit. I'm trying to decide between using wired and wireless modes.

I've noticed that when both subs are set to use KW1 in the app, the sub gain increases by 6 dB by default. What is the reason for this? Is there some kind of signal loss with wireless transmission that needs to be compensated for by increasing the sub gain? Is the assumed loss of signal affect sound quality in any way? If that's the case, would it be better for me to stick with wired mode? I still prefer wireless for the convenience, but meaningful improvement in sound quality is my priority.

Thanks for the helping hands.

I have 2x KC62s on the wireless kit, also with LS60s. (high five!) Welcome to ASR!

I am not sure about the 6dB gain thing.

However, I have found that my KW1s seem to be vulnerable to some kind of interference. Oftentimes while they are active they thump randomly. It sounds like someone is knocking on the wall at random intervals, it's not great. My theory is they're picking up something from the wifi which is located nearby, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, if you have the option to go wired that won't be an issue for you. In my setup running cables to the subs is off the table.

I wouldn't worry about sound quality using the KW1 though, haven't noticed any issues other than the interference. Also, with subs, unless you have very high noise going in, usually sound quality per se isn't a big deal. It doesn't take SOTA gear to reproduce frequencies exclusively below 150hz.

While we're talking about it, I recently started using my WiiM Pro as the main input, and pretty soon will finally start doing room correction with it. I think it's a good way to patch the one big gap in the LS60 software, which is lack of a user-editable PEQ.

 

[Mnyb]

LS60 and dual KC92 here , i don't use the KW1. but be practical if the sub is like one meter from or rigth beside the speaker use a wire.

KW1 solves open floor plan other side of the room scenarios for you .

Yes the Kef app accommodates gain difference's so it's probably why it does this .

WiiM pro+ works nicely for room correction ,btw use REW and measure the sub integration before any RC you can adjust the speakers sub integration ( recommend the expert mode ) and not trust the defaults regarding subs as the room decides most of the bass issues

 

[Purité Audio]

I experimented with the wireless kit, worked well I thought, purely in practical terms it kept the floor clear of cables.
Keith

 

[nothingman]

However, I have found that my KW1s seem to be vulnerable to some kind of interference. Oftentimes while they are active they thump randomly. It sounds like someone is knocking on the wall at random intervals, it's not great. My theory is they're picking up something from the wifi which is located nearby, but I'm not sure.

Same! The KW-1 thumping noises were ruining the whole thing for me.

I just figured out what’s going on. The KW-1 is definitely vulnerable to wifi interference.

I suspected as much, and asked KEF UK support to help me by telling me the exact frequency or frequency range that the unit used in “5.2” and “5.8” mode but they refused. They checked with the engineering team then told me they couldn’t provide that information, like it was a state secret. Idiots.

Sucks to be them, but we have government regulators and I found out that looking up an FCC ID is easy and provides this exact information. You can do the same — https://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid and the ID is UXD 204020. The first results are all you need but you can look in the details and get yourself a nice 90 page report.

5.2 (green light)
Center: 5200 MHz
Width: 5157 to 5243 MHz
Wifi channel overlap (20 MHz width numbering): 32, 36, 40, 44, 48

5.8 (blue light)
Center: 5784 MHz
Width: 5729 to 5839 MHz
Wifi channel overlap: 144, 149, 153, 157, 161, 165, 169

The width they’re allowing themselves to use is super greedy and makes the decluttering task harder but not impossible.

Personally, I have four wifi access points (Unifi, all wired and using 40 MHz channel width). I now have my KW-1 on 5.2 mode and blocked out channels 32-48 from being used by any AP on my network, and manually selected 151, 159, and then DFS channels 52 and 60 which is the first time I’m trying DFS. Let’s see how that goes, but my 5ghz devices all seem to be connecting fine.

But I can report I’ve listened to the KW-1 long enough today to claim victory. Even after hours of listening I’m not getting any of the popping and thumping noises that were plaguing my system multiple times per song. This was definitely the problem and I had to solve it myself, no thanks to KEF.

Great speakers, often terrible customer service. Incredibly insulting for them to tell a customer that publicly available information is too private to share. Shows either laziness or incompetence.

 

[Oddball]

There are few things that can go wrong with the wire. Cat or dog bitting into it or child being curious how the cable actually looks from. I am all for cutting wires but have not come across of anything that would come close to that. When I turn my system on, I also like to turn sleep mode on my iPhone and just chill. To the extent I need to trouble shoot my equipment at that point, I find that as offensive as alien intrusion.

But I might just be spoiled by the lack of need to troubleshot. Understand if some might view it as challenge.

 

[kemmler3D]

Same! The KW-1 thumping noises were ruining the whole thing for me.

I just figured out what’s going on. The KW-1 is definitely vulnerable to wifi interference.

I suspected as much, and asked KEF UK support to help me by telling me the exact frequency or frequency range that the unit used in “5.2” and “5.8” mode but they refused. They checked with the engineering team then told me they couldn’t provide that information, like it was a state secret. Idiots.

Sucks to be them, but we have government regulators and I found out that looking up an FCC ID is easy and provides this exact information. You can do the same — https://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid and the ID is UXD 204020. The first results are all you need but you can look in the details and get yourself a nice 90 page report.

5.2 (green light)
Center: 5200 MHz
Width: 5157 to 5243 MHz
Wifi channel overlap (20 MHz width numbering): 32, 36, 40, 44, 48

5.8 (blue light)
Center: 5784 MHz
Width: 5729 to 5839 MHz
Wifi channel overlap: 144, 149, 153, 157, 161, 165, 169

The width they’re allowing themselves to use is super greedy and makes the decluttering task harder but not impossible.

Personally, I have four wifi access points (Unifi, all wired and using 40 MHz channel width). I now have my KW-1 on 5.2 mode and blocked out channels 32-48 from being used by any AP on my network, and manually selected 151, 159, and then DFS channels 52 and 60 which is the first time I’m trying DFS. Let’s see how that goes, but my 5ghz devices all seem to be connecting fine.

But I can report I’ve listened to the KW-1 long enough today to claim victory. Even after hours of listening I’m not getting any of the popping and thumping noises that were plaguing my system multiple times per song. This was definitely the problem and I had to solve it myself, no thanks to KEF.

Great speakers, often terrible customer service. Incredibly insulting for them to tell a customer that publicly available information is too private to share. Shows either laziness or incompetence.

I've actually found the customer service to be pretty good (they sent me replacement feet and a remote gratis even though I bought from a dealer) but opinions on their efficacy aside, this is an absolutely AWESOME post and I will be seeking to implement this on my own wi-fi ASAP. THANK YOU.

 

[nothingman]

I've actually found the customer service to be pretty good (they sent me replacement feet and a remote gratis even though I bought from a dealer) but opinions on their efficacy aside, this is an absolutely AWESOME post and I will be seeking to implement this on my own wi-fi ASAP. THANK YOU.

Appreciate it! Every now and again I manage to impress even myself. Never looked up a FCC ID before nor have I ever read so much about WiFi channel widths and their exact frequencies and DFS, etc., but it all turned out to be worth it.

Another thing, and I wish I could measure this in something like a multi-tone distortion plot but I swear the fidelity of the subwoofer has dramatically improved. I bet there were all sorts of barely perceptible inference noises happening by the dozen alongside the big thumps. The bass is clearer and cleaner now to my ear.

 

[kemmler3D]

I bet there were all sorts of barely perceptible inference noises happening by the dozen alongside the big thumps. The bass is clearer and cleaner now to my ear.

Interesting and I'd say quite plausible. The thumps are really noticeable, and it establishes that we definitely have audible noise coming through. But I guess you're right that there could easily be a lot of lower level noise happening around the thumps, which would tend to be audible as well, just not so dramatically obvious...

For me the thumps are especially maddening, because I share a wall with my neighbor and they do sometimes thump around on their side. But the thumps from the subs sound EXACTLY like thumps from the neighbor. So not only do I have this interference but it's hard for me to even be sure when it's happening. Then meanwhile I worry about annoying my neighbor with MY thumps. I haven't used my subs in weeks. This will be a great improvement if it works.

 

[nothingman]

5.2 (green light)
Center: 5200 MHz
Width: 5157 to 5243 MHz
Wifi channel overlap (20 MHz width numbering): 32, 36, 40, 44, 48

5.8 (blue light)
Center: 5784 MHz
Width: 5729 to 5839 MHz
Wifi channel overlap: 144, 149, 153, 157, 161, 165, 169

Just following up to clarify that I don’t think the KW-1 is using that full width all the time, in case that’s how it comes across. The FCC report shows the 5.2 band has 44 mini-channels in 2MHz increments. The 5.8 has 56 channels in the same increments. I would guess that during pairing the KW-1 transmitter and receiver decide on one their designated channels and then stick to it, but we’ll never know how that process works or where the devices land within the range. If the idea is it automatically finds a quiet frequency in which to work, I think our experience shows it sucks at that. So we don’t have any choice but to clear out a bunch of wifi channels to not interfere.

 

[kemmler3D]

Just following up to clarify that I don’t think the KW-1 is using that full width all the time, in case that’s how it comes across. The FCC report shows the 5.2 band has 44 mini-channels in 2MHz increments. The 5.8 has 56 channels in the same increments. I would guess that during pairing the KW-1 transmitter and receiver decide on one their designated channels and then stick to it, but we’ll never know how that process works or where the devices land within the range. If the idea is it automatically finds a quiet frequency in which to work, I think our experience shows it sucks at that. So we don’t have any choice but to clear out a bunch of wifi channels to not interfere.

Annoyingly it turns out my router (TP Link Deco) fully lacks the ability to configure channels manually, so I either need to cut off 2.4ghz or 5ghz on my router entirely, (both fairly unappealing options) or get a new router.

But at least I have a viable solution on deck. That's a good start.

 

[kyuu]

Annoyingly it turns out my router (TP Link Deco) fully lacks the ability to configure channels manually, so I either need to cut off 2.4ghz or 5ghz on my router entirely, (both fairly unappealing options) or get a new router.

If you haven't, you can try the Network Optimization option in the app/interface. It's supposed to scan the environment and adjust the channel usage, so do it while making sure there's content playing to the subs. But yeah, Deco is a great system generally but it's definitely lacking in configuration options.

 

[nothingman]

Annoyingly it turns out my router (TP Link Deco) fully lacks the ability to configure channels manually, so I either need to cut off 2.4ghz or 5ghz on my router entirely, (both fairly unappealing options) or get a new router.

But at least I have a viable solution on deck. That's a good start.

Ugh. Wouldn’t hurt anything to just run 2.4 for long enough to test. Then you’ll know (I’m eager to hear too!).

I’m new to the UniFi ecosystem but would highly recommend it. Extremely powerful but at the same time accessible. Doesn’t have to cost a fortune. Something like the Express 7 gets you started and then it’s a matter of how many APs you need. As always, much better to wire everything up.

Edit: Or Cloud Gateway Ultra for a gateway with no radios to run your APs. But whatever you do, do not purchase the regular “UX” Express. It’s criminally underpowered and shouldn’t exist. UX7 a totally different ballgame.

 

[kemmler3D]

If you haven't, you can try the Network Optimization option in the app/interface. It's supposed to scan the environment and adjust the channel usage, so do it while making sure there's content playing to the subs. But yeah, Deco is a great system generally but it's definitely lacking in configuration options.

I'll try that, but I am not optimistic, a lot of people on the support forums have negative opinions of that feature.

Ugh. Wouldn’t hurt anything to just run 2.4 for long enough to test. Then you’ll know (I’m eager to hear too!).

I’m new to the UniFi ecosystem but would highly recommend it. Extremely powerful but at the same time accessible. Doesn’t have to cost a fortune. Something like the Express 7 gets you started and then it’s a matter of how many APs you need. As always, much better to wire everything up.

Edit: Or Cloud Gateway Ultra for a gateway with no radios to run your APs. But whatever you do, do not purchase the regular “UX” Express. It’s criminally underpowered and shouldn’t exist. UX7 a totally different ballgame.

I will look into it if I'm not able to solve the problem another way.