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Do you need high end speakers for rock and heavy metal?

I honestly don't think there's such a thing as high end speakers, but I see you already got burned for that so I'm not going to drag it any further.

I think that everything sounds better on a well performing speaker. I don't believe in this "messy, distorted, lo-fi, crunchy" so use Cerwin Vega. I was very pleasantly surprised how early Panthera, Slayer, Megadeath and Metallica albums sounded on LS50 Meta. It's really good sounding.
That's Pantera.
And Megadeth.
 
Perhaps. What I am really attacking isn't a specific speaker as such, but the idea that "good speakers reveal bad recordings".
Too often in audio shows, a good recording is a little jazz trio or a little girl with a guitar, a term coinned by one of our elite members.
While a complex recording like Nine Inch Nail is immidiately taken off the program and labelled as a bad recording. It is the speakers who are not up to the task, a few speakers are.
 
Too often in audio shows, a good recording is a little jazz trio or a little girl with a guitar, a term coinned by one of our elite members.
While a complex recording like Nine Inch Nail is immidiately taken off the program and labelled as a bad recording. It is the speakers who are not up to the task, a few speakers are.
As a fan of classical music, rock and heavy metal I struggle with the idea of any rock music being “complex”.
I have been listening to rock since the 1960s and most bands are 3 to 5 players, thoughSantana adds more percussionists, so making it “complex” in musical terms is a bit of a stretch!

A lot of classical music is complex IME, some too complex for me to understand, but rock? Nah!
 
As a fan of classical music, rock and heavy metal I struggle with the idea of any rock music being “complex”.
I have been listening to rock since the 1960s and most bands are 3 to 5 players, thoughSantana adds more percussionists, so making it “complex” in musical terms is a bit of a stretch!

A lot of classical music is complex IME, some too complex for me to understand, but rock? Nah!

progressive rock comes to mind, but I guess we're talking more about complex as in many broad and competing frequency bands at the same time. :)
 
As someone who listens to a lot of different kinds of audio from my system, I agree that metal, or any really complex music, does need a high-quality system to sound right. It is easy for it to sound shrill if bass is lacking and if treble is unrefined.

The reason? Complex music more closely resembles pink noise than any other type of audio. And it is that full-spectrum sound that is most easy to pick up on problems from. Simple music doesn't reveal the flaws in a system as well, which is why simple music is chosen at audio shows.

And @Theta is right about Nine Inch Nails. Those are some of the highest quality you'll find (Trent Reznor is a perfectionist). But there are many other examples.
 
Listening to Korn right now. Nothing wrong with it. A good, big three-way with an amp that can drive them optimally. Nothing more to it.

If there's still problems, it's the room acoustics. Use passive and active correction/compensation.

Lots of rubbish, high price speakers and amplifiers out there, try to avoid them.

'The better the speaker, the more recordings sound bad' - is just totally arse about face. People don't want to admit to themselves that the highly reviewed, highly priced speakers they bought are total junk.
 
As a fan of classical music, rock and heavy metal I struggle with the idea of any rock music being “complex”.
I have been listening to rock since the 1960s and most bands are 3 to 5 players, thoughSantana adds more percussionists, so making it “complex” in musical terms is a bit of a stretch!

A lot of classical music is complex IME, some too complex for me to understand, but rock? Nah!
Have a listen to Steven Wilson, Porcupine Tree, Frank Zappa, Dream Theater, Yes , King Crimson. Frank Zappa wrote rock concertos and operas, Compositions by Jon Lord of Deep Purple.
 
complex as in many broad and competing frequency bands at the same time
More than orchestral music? nah - not buying it.
Compared to a Mahler, Bruckner or many other end of 19th century music all the rock and pop music I have heard is musically trivial, however much I enjoy a good riff.

Not trying to denigrate the enjoyability of it, just not buying the idea that it is complexity which may make it difficult for a speaker.

Mind you IME some well regarded speakers, very convincing on string quartet or a folk song, fall apart completely trying to reproduce a big symphony. I decided not to buy Spendor BC1s back in the ‘70s for this very reason and they were the darling of many reviewers.
 
Have a listen to Steven Wilson, Porcupine Tree, Frank Zappa, Dream Theater, Yes , King Crimson. Frank Zappa wrote rock concertos and operas, Compositions by Jon Lord of Deep Purple.
I have pretty well all Frank Zappa’s musical output going back to the 60s, Yes and Deep Purple too and King Crimson right from their first LP.

It is this I do not consider complex compared to orchestral music. I would consider some Zappa as orchestral music more than rock. I love it.
 
I use only black/death/punk/industrial as test tracks. A wall of shaped noise is really revealing for crossover problems and tweeter capabilities. Some speakers create very weird sounds and soundstages. Also, SET amps are wonderfully unpredictable with this stuff.

Classical is very demanding but in a bit different way and while I enjoy a convert or two time to time it's not something I enjoy at home.
 
More than orchestral music? nah - not buying it.
Compared to a Mahler, Bruckner or many other end of 19th century music all the rock and pop music I have heard is musically trivial, however much I enjoy a good riff.

Not trying to denigrate the enjoyability of it, just not buying the idea that it is complexity which may make it difficult for a speaker.

Mind you IME some well regarded speakers, very convincing on string quartet or a folk song, fall apart completely trying to reproduce a big symphony. I decided not to buy Spendor BC1s back in the ‘70s for this very reason and they were the darling of many reviewers.

But it was not presented (or at least not intended) as a competition between genres. I fully agree that Mahler is dynamic and complex for a speaker. I suggested that heavy metal music can be challenging to present in a good way. I did not say that heavy metal was the only genre that can be challenging to present in a good way.
 
About mentioned brands. ATC is often mentioned and rightly so. Very balanced and powerful. Can be a bit harsh though, not forgiving for sure. But within matters of taste I think, not calling it a fault.

Harbeth SHL5 is one of my favourites but it's a bit slow and civil. More suitable for classic (hard) rock and progressive stuff. Very expensive nowadays with the stands but so good for certain taste.

For more modern metal and industrial and EDM tastes I pick Dynaudio. Very precise and powerful and you really can hear sharp accents etc. Metal really sounds like metal (heh...) Especially when you go above Emit range they start to shine in this quality but even Emits have the house sound together nicely. And then there is Emit 50 three way which is pretty much perfect price/performance big-ish speaker at 2k€ (tax included).
Edit: My endgame "for metal" speaker is Dynaudio Contour 60i. Not really hearing enough improvement with Confidences to consider for the money.

In any case three-way is the way to go. But there are good two-ways, they're just not cheap. It's way easier to achieve power and presence with even cheaper three-way like Wharfedale Linton (that's one more to "metal approved" list of mine) than trying to make smaller two-way rock.
 
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But it was not presented (or at least not intended) as a competition between genres. I fully agree that Mahler is dynamic and complex for a speaker. I suggested that heavy metal music can be challenging to present in a good way. I did not say that heavy metal was the only genre that can be challenging to present in a good way.
My point wasn’t to compete genre-wise but point out that if complexity could be a reason why some speakers don’t sound good on rock music those speakewrs would be totally unusable with classical music, so I doubt that complexity is the reason.
 
More than orchestral music? nah - not buying it.
Compared to a Mahler, Bruckner or many other end of 19th century music all the rock and pop music I have heard is musically trivial, however much I enjoy a good riff.

The thing you seem to be talking about is the musical complexity of a composition of large classical orchestral music in comparison to a rock band, but the main question here is which type of music is more taxing on the speakers from a technical point of view. There is no doubt that large classical orchestra music is usually more complex in composition, but a closely miked recording of a rock band that goes full throttle where all the instruments compete for the full frequency range, usually from the beginning to the end of a song, will undoubtfully be more demanding on the speakers compared to a few high energy burst here and there in a piece of classical music.

All of this is of course generally speaking, there are probably a few examples of classical music that can be very demanding on the speakers. :)
 
The thing you seem to be talking about is the musical complexity of a composition of large classical orchestral music in comparison to a rock band, but the main question here is which type of music is more taxing on the speakers from a technical point of view. There is no doubt that large classical orchestra music is usually more complex in composition, but a closely miked recording of a rock band that goes full throttle where all the instruments compete for the full frequency range, usually from the beginning to the end of a song, will undoubtfully be more demanding on the speakers compared to a few high energy burst here and there in a piece of classical music.

All of this is of course generally speaking, there are probably a few examples of classical music that can be very demanding on the speakers. :)
I would be more prepared to believe it was poor manipulation of close miked instruments which caused a recording to sound harsh from my experience.
I am not familiar with instruments which compete for the whole frequency range, surely only synthesisers and organs use the full frequency range?

Anyway it sound like bollox to me ;)
 
For more modern metal and industrial and EDM tastes I pick Dynaudio. Very precise and powerful and you really can hear sharp accents etc. Metal really sounds like metal (heh...) Especially when you go above Emit range they start to shine in this quality but even Emits have the house sound together nicely. And then there is Emit 50 three way which is pretty much perfect price/performance big-ish speaker at 2k€ (tax included).
Edit: My endgame "for metal" speaker is Dynaudio Contour 60i. Not really hearing enough improvement with Confidences to consider for the money.

In any case three-way is the way to go. But there are good two-ways, they're just not cheap. It's way easier to achieve power and presence with even cheaper three-way like Wharfedale Linton (that's one more to "metal approved" list of mine) than trying to make smaller two-way rock.
I agree 3-ways can potentially be the best, but 2-ways can be great as well. And I think you're on the right track with Dynaudio. You want a neutral speaker, maybe even bordering on the warmer side just to make sure older recordings don't sound harsh. My S400 MKII's are excellent with this kind of music, which means they are great at all kinds of content. They are in my dual-use theater/music/game room. It's small so output needs aren't enormous (95 dB is enough).

If you have a capable system with sub(s), you'll want to put Starset on:

 
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My point wasn’t to compete genre-wise but point out that if complexity could be a reason why some speakers don’t sound good on rock music those speakewrs would be totally unusable with classical music, so I doubt that complexity is the reason.

Or perhaps they don't work well with Mahler either?
 
I would be more prepared to believe it was poor manipulation of close miked instruments which caused a recording to sound harsh from my experience.
I am not familiar with instruments which compete for the whole frequency range, surely only synthesisers and organs use the full frequency range?

Anyway it sound like bollox to me ;)
if your thinking Deep Purple in terms of metal, they're not so complex, but there's a lot of rock where the recording is very dense and they're using every track on the desk for something or other. That's not so easy for a speaker where just one small driver has to do everything below 2KHz. You get IMD and that always sounds bad. Crank it a bit and it gets worse.

'Harsh' is almost always a system problem, not on the recording. I'll bet money it didn't sound harsh on the studio playback. A brutal, pummelling onslaught, maybe - but not harsh.
 
I agree 3-ways can potentially be the best, but 2-ways can be great as well. And I think you're on the right track with Dynaudio. You want a neutral speaker, maybe even bordering on the warmer side just to make sure older recordings don't sound harsh. My S400 MKII's are excellent with this kind of music, which means they are great at all kinds of content. They are in my dual-use theater/music/game room. It's small so output needs aren't enormous (95 dB is enough).

If you have a capable system with sub(s), you'll want to put Starset on:

Love these guys, this song is a modern ear candy poppy metal production masterclass
 
I have been listening to some of the most agressive Metal you can get, both in terms of sound and crude production, for years.

My quite old KEF IQ's have had no issues playing it at decent volume. Blasphemy plays perfectly fine on them, including their inverted Fidelio intro.

Morover, I have listed to stuff such as Carcass, Napalm Death, Benediction or Bolt Thrower of KEF Blades in a former coworker's house. They had absolutely no issues playing Grindcore and Death Metal.
 
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