Speakers + amp recommendation for extreme music

[Diocletian]

Hello,

New to the forum (sorry if this is the wrong place to post this) and to hi-fi in general, even though I've been collecting Lp's mostly and CDs/MCs for almost 30 years now. I am looking to upgrade my system and I've searched this forum for similar posts. Altough I found a similar post, the music I usually listen to is much heavier/faster (than Accept, Maiden or Metallica that has been posted) and since half the people say that music doesn't matter in regards to your hi-fi system and the other half that it does, I decided to ask for recommedations.

I am currently using a rega p1+ and edifier s3000pro active speakers which I am happy with. I am looking to move the edifiers to my pc and get a cd player (havent had one for 15 years or so), a set of passive speakers, and an amp to drive them.
90% of the time I listen to death/black metal. The blastbeat heavy kind. Bands like Truppensturm, Black Witchery, Diocletian, Conqueror, Antaeus, Incantation, Infernal War, Marduk etc

My listening room is around 15-20 sqm and the ceilings are 2.7m high. The listening positions are slightly to the left (or even further left) of where I intend to place the speakers with a distance of around 2.5m (less if you sit at the end of the L shaped couch).
My budget is around 1500 euros.

My questions are:
. Can anyone recommend a speakers/amp system (+cd player maybe) within my budget? Bear in mind that I live in Greece and some brands might not be available.
. Is it possible to plug the TV to the amp aswell and use the hi-fi speakers for it and get rid or my dali katch one soundbar? Should I add a central unit later and/or a subwoofer?
. What should I look for in your reviews database? I am not very technically proficient about hi-fi and don't know that to look for in the graphs. What makes a speaker good for the music I enjoy?
. Do I need a dac or a sound card in order to use the s3000's on my pc or it wouldn't make much of a difference?

Examples of bands I listen to:
Godless North - Dark Rites of Mystic Order [Full Demo] 1998
Diocletian - Infernos
Infernal War - Into Dead Soil

Thanks in advance

 

[ZolaIII]

With your budget it will be a little hard to get there all in all. What are your SPL requirements?

 

[unpluggged]

Examples of bands I listen to:
Godless North - Dark Rites of Mystic Order [Full Demo] 1998
Diocletian - Infernos
Infernal War - Into Dead Soil

All of them are mastered very poorly, so it does not really matter which audio chain you use. They aren't going to sound any better on a good system.

 

[Diocletian]

With your budget it will be a little hard to get there all in all. What are your SPL requirements?

Spl meaning how loud I want it to be? I can't go extremely loud because it is an apartment and the neighbours might not appreciate my taste , but don't want it to be weak either. It is not a big room anyway. I can stretch the budget to 2k if it would really make a difference but already people saying it doesn't matter.

All of them are mastered very poorly, so it does not really matter which audio chain you use. They aren't going to sound any better on a good system.

Yea I understand that and honestly, that mastering appeals to someone like me who likes underground music. So, what do I look for in speakers for that music? For example if I chose the Elac UBR62s over Cambridge Audio's SX-50 which are 3 times the price in my country, I would hear no difference?

Cheers

 

[DVDdoug]

I can't make a specific recommendation but you certainly could benefit from bigger woofers or a subwoofer. If you can visit an audio-video store, I'd recommend it. You don't have to buy from the retail store but it should be educational. Take a CD or two with you so you can listen to recordings you're familiar with.

A subwoofer can be tricky to integrate if you don't have an audio video receiver, which has a sub output and "bass management" (an optional crossover). An AVR can also decode the surround formats and that's required to get the "point one" LFE channel from movies. The LFE is not included in the regular stereo downmix.

Is it possible to plug the TV to the amp aswell and use the hi-fi speakers for it and get rid or my dali katch one soundbar?

A "power amp" normally has only one input. It's typically intended for use with a preamp which has all of the inputs/controls.

An "integrated amp" combines a preamp and power amp.

A receiver adds a tuner and an AVR has digital inputs & decoders for the surround formats, and at-least 5 channels of amplification (you don't have to use them all) plus a line-level output for a powered subwoofer.

Receivers and AVRs are mass-produced and sold into a competitive market so it's usually the most economical solution. I paid about $300 USD for my 5.1 channel AVR which has 80W x 5 channels. But I have a pair of ridiculously huge speakers and a pair of 15-inch subwoofers. My rear speakers are large "floor standers" that are hanging above my couch.

the music I usually listen to is much heavier/faster (than Accept, Maiden or Metallica that has been posted)

To me "heavy" implies bass (big woofers or subwoofers). Otherwise, metal tends to be dynamically compressed which makes it louder at a given volume/wattage level. You probably don't need lots of wattage. But it's complicated and power requirements go up exponentially with loudness, and lots of subwoofer power is usually "nice".

and since half the people say that music doesn't matter in regards to your hi-fi system and the other half that it does

A good system will accurately reproduce the sound no matter what it is. But sometimes we have to compromise or economize and your choices will depend on your tastes.

Do I need a dac or a sound card in order to use the s3000's on my pc or it wouldn't make much of a difference?

I'm sure your computer has a soundcard or "soundchip"... An analog output... The Internet says your speakers also have USB, optical, and Bluetooth so you have lots of options. USB might be the best choice, but I'd start with whatever is the most convenient.

 

[ZolaIII]

Hire goes nothing. If you are sure you want to go with pasive speakers. Try to find Elac DBR62's with WiiM Amp Pro and SVS SB-1000. Use RCA line in for Rega and Toslink for CD when you get one. Try to find CD player on sale Denon/Marantz and you will get there.
Important is staying on close bufle sub.

 

[DVDdoug]

For example if I chose the Elac UBR62s over Cambridge Audio's SX-50 which are 3 times the price in my country, I would hear no difference?

Different speakers ALWAYS sound different (better or worse). MOST electronics is better than human hearing unless you overdrive an amplifier (or something) into clipping/distortion. Sometimes you'll hear nose from the electronics (hum, hiss, or whine in the background).

I can't go extremely loud because it is an apartment and the neighbours might not appreciate my taste

A subwoofer (or "good bass") will be a problem. Bass passes easily through walls...

You might want to get a good pair of headphones, even if you prefer speakers most of the time. (I prefer the sound of speakers in a room.) There is almost no correlation between headphone price and sound quality. You can get "unbeatable" sound from a moderate pair of headphones and a cell phone! I have a pair of AKG K371's ($150 USD) which are highly rated for sound quality except they have a bit of extra bass-boost. (They do have a reputation for being fragile but mine haven't broken yet.)

rega p1+

OK... Lots of people enjoy records, but it is a technically-inferior format. I grew-up with vinyl and the "snap", "crackle", and "pop" always annoyed me. It's got some other limitations too and I could live with those but I don't have to!

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, and welcome.
Music is just music so don't worry about 'hifi for metal etc'. Having said that, I agree that you will want good bass so planning for a subwoofer (perhaps later, as an upgrade if you feel like you need it) is sensible.

You want to include your TV too, and your turntable.
I'd suggest the WiiM Ultra: HDMI for TV, inputs for the turntable and good options for adding a subwoofer.
That's not an amplifier so I'd be tempted to get active speakers (if you like the look of them) - something like Kali LP6 or JBL 306
So far, that's about 800 - well under budget and with options to upgrade.
You can spend more, I'm not sure that you need to.

Plenty of other options

 

[Zek]

The worst thing is to give someone advice on what they should or shouldn't buy.
Everyone has different spaces in which they listen to music and everyone has their own convictions about what is best for them - because how many people have so many different tastes.
The best thing would be to visit as many hi-fi equipment stores as possible and see for yourself what suits you best.It would be even better if you could hear what you like in your own space.

 

[ZolaIII]

The worst thing is to give someone advice on what they should or shouldn't buy.
Everyone has different spaces in which they listen to music and everyone has their own convictions about what is best for them - because how many people have so many different tastes.
The best thing would be to visit as many hi-fi equipment stores as possible and see for yourself what suits you best.It would be even better if you could hear what you like in your own space.

We do have our own list of priorities no matter what they might think they want. Don't discriminate and it's fine. At least basic PEQ and room correction including high pass and crossover for sub for easier integration is imperative. If it's faster music you don't want it to ring more it have too especially in small room and so on.

 

[Diocletian]

The worst thing is to give someone advice on what they should or shouldn't buy.
Everyone has different spaces in which they listen to music and everyone has their own convictions about what is best for them - because how many people have so many different tastes.
The best thing would be to visit as many hi-fi equipment stores as possible and see for yourself what suits you best.It would be even better if you could hear what you like in your own space.

That would be ideal but I doubt my local stores will have a big variety. And honestly i don't wanna get into the loop of buying stuff, trying them and returning them until i find a match.

Hi, and welcome.
Music is just music so don't worry about 'hifi for metal etc'. Having said that, I agree that you will want good bass so planning for a subwoofer (perhaps later, as an upgrade if you feel like you need it) is sensible.

You want to include your TV too, and your turntable.
I'd suggest the WiiM Ultra: HDMI for TV, inputs for the turntable and good options for adding a subwoofer.
That's not an amplifier so I'd be tempted to get active speakers (if you like the look of them) - something like Kali LP6 or JBL 306
So far, that's about 800 - well under budget and with options to upgrade.
You can spend more, I'm not sure that you need to.

Plenty of other options

Can't I plug in my tv on an integrated amp and pair it with passive speakers and a sub? I don't really need a streamer since i have about 2k lps/cds and i keep buying physical formats. Would there be any benefits on using an integrated amp (rega p1+ has preamp installed though) along with a wiim ultra besides the streaming?

Hire goes nothing. If you are sure you want to go with pasive speakers. Try to find Elac DBR62's with WiiM Amp Pro and SVS SB-1000. Use RCA line in for Rega and Toslink for CD when you get one. Try to find CD player on sale Denon/Marantz and you will get there.
Important is staying on close bufle sub.

Would Wiim Amp Pro be a good option for me since I dont really need a streamer? Looked it up and although it has enough inputs for tv/turntable/cd it looks less versatile than a normal integrated amp

I can't make a specific recommendation but you certainly could benefit from bigger woofers or a subwoofer. If you can visit an audio-video store, I'd recommend it. You don't have to buy from the retail store but it should be educational. Take a CD or two with you so you can listen to recordings you're familiar with.

A subwoofer can be tricky to integrate if you don't have an audio video receiver, which has a sub output and "bass management" (an optional crossover). An AVR can also decode the surround formats and that's required to get the "point one" LFE channel from movies. The LFE is not included in the regular stereo downmix.

Integrated amps have sub out ports don't they? Did some research last night and indeed lots of people recommend AVRs. Although found some stereo purists saying that stereo will always sound better with an integrated amp and AVRs become obsolete after a few years in terms of video. Seems like a solid recommendation though and will look some AVRs up

 

[Roland68]

Hello,

New to the forum (sorry if this is the wrong place to post this) and to hi-fi in general, even though I've been collecting Lp's mostly and CDs/MCs for almost 30 years now. I am looking to upgrade my system and I've searched this forum for similar posts. Altough I found a similar post, the music I usually listen to is much heavier/faster (than Accept, Maiden or Metallica that has been posted) and since half the people say that music doesn't matter in regards to your hi-fi system and the other half that it does, I decided to ask for recommedations.

I am currently using a rega p1+ and edifier s3000pro active speakers which I am happy with. I am looking to move the edifiers to my pc and get a cd player (havent had one for 15 years or so), a set of passive speakers, and an amp to drive them.
90% of the time I listen to death/black metal. The blastbeat heavy kind. Bands like Truppensturm, Black Witchery, Diocletian, Conqueror, Antaeus, Incantation, Infernal War, Marduk etc

My listening room is around 15-20 sqm and the ceilings are 2.7m high. The listening positions are slightly to the left (or even further left) of where I intend to place the speakers with a distance of around 2.5m (less if you sit at the end of the L shaped couch).
My budget is around 1500 euros.

My questions are:
. Can anyone recommend a speakers/amp system (+cd player maybe) within my budget? Bear in mind that I live in Greece and some brands might not be available.
. Is it possible to plug the TV to the amp aswell and use the hi-fi speakers for it and get rid or my dali katch one soundbar? Should I add a central unit later and/or a subwoofer?
. What should I look for in your reviews database? I am not very technically proficient about hi-fi and don't know that to look for in the graphs. What makes a speaker good for the music I enjoy?
. Do I need a dac or a sound card in order to use the s3000's on my pc or it wouldn't make much of a difference?

Examples of bands I listen to:
Godless North - Dark Rites of Mystic Order [Full Demo] 1998
Diocletian - Infernos
Infernal War - Into Dead Soil

Thanks in advance

Can you get Heco Aurora 700 or 1000 speakers cheaply in Greece?
What other well-known speaker brands are available?

 

[Diocletian]

Can you get Heco Aurora 700 or 1000 speakers cheaply in Greece?
What other well-known speaker brands are available?

The 700s go for 1000-1100euros and the 1000s for 1560euros. Someone else recommended these aswell. Should I opt for bookshelf speakers + sub instead of towers though since it is not a big room?
https://www.skroutz.eu/c/3060/hi-fi-speakers.html This is the comparison site I use.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Diocletian I am trying to get you there so nothing fancy. Yes good Yamaha would be better but you don't really need it and with separate DSP you don't have money for it and availability is bad (for such DSP's). WiiM is there for it's digital filter implementation and soon room correction. Including high pass for main speakers. I tryed to use popular and rather available components. SB-1000 is getting hard to catch as it's discontinued. If you can find other speakers which have better availability/price and similar or better performance be my guest and go for it.

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

And use index hire.
It's a dead season so if you give it a good look I am certain you will find some discounts. Still you might prefer to go with active monitors instead or something else. I prefer to stay on PC and DLNA stream locally for the most part anyway.

 

[Diocletian]

@Diocletian I am trying to get you there so nothing fancy. Yes good Yamaha would be better but you don't really need it and with separate DSP you don't have money for it and availability is bad (for such DSP's). WiiM is there for it's digital filter implementation and soon room correction. Including high pass for main speakers. I tryed to use popular and rather available components. SB-1000 is getting hard to catch as it's discontinued. If you can find other speakers which have better availability/price and similar or better performance be my guest and go for it.

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

And use index hire.
It's a dead season so if you give it a good look I am certain you will find some discounts. Still you might prefer to go with active monitors instead or something else. I prefer to stay on PC and DLNA stream locally for the most part anyway.

I think I will get the Wiim Ultra tomorrow since I have a pair of active speakers and probably add a sub (since pretty much everyone here recommends that I do - maybe the one you mentioned. Any other cheaper alternatives? ). Wanna try this setup out. It looks more flexible and future proof than the wiim amp pro.

Sooner or later I will move the active speakers to the pc and get an amp like a Yamaha A-S501? and a pair of passive speakers.

What should I look for in the index you linked? I can't really understand the measurements in relation to the music i usually listen to.

Regards

 

[Ellebob]

I thik whatever you use for electronics whether it be a receiver, integrated amp, preamp, or streamer it shoud have HDMI ARC or eARC capability to work with your TV. I am assuing your TV is not too old and has an HDMI ARC or eARC connection. This allows ease of use with TV and other remotes forr volume and turning on/off the system. I would spend less on the electronics and more on the speakers as that will make a bigger difference in sound.

Depending on speakers a subwoofer may not be necessary. I always prefer one but lower bass travels through walls easier and if your not listening at louder volumes and your neighbors are a consideration it is something to consider whether you want one or not. Without one I would still get speakers that can go to ~40hz without a problem.

Options:

Active speakers with electronics in them. They have extra inputs for your CD and Phono as well as HDMI ARC for your TV. They also have subwoofer connections for a sub. Some brands that make them, Kef, Klipsch, Elac, SVS, PSB, Kanto and others.

Active speakers/ Studio monitors. Use with a preamp that has HDMI ARC. Many brands some aready mentioned like Kali, JBL but Adam, Focal, IK Multimedia are others. Typically some of the best performance for the money but might not meet aesthetic requirements for many homes.

Passive speakers: The most options available and use with an integrated amp or receiver.

A note on WiiM. Whether you use their Ultra or one of their amps. You don't have to use the streaming part of it if you don't desire. They can be used as a preamp or integrated amp. There are other options like this as well by Sonos, Blue Sound, Marantz, Denon Heos, etc. WiiM is very good performance and reasonably priced.

Whichever direction you go I would spend more on speakers and sub then on the electronics. A great integrated amp with just OK speakers will not sound as good as great speakers and just OK electronics. Are integrated amps better than receivers? TypicallyYes. Especially if pushed to louder volumes as they tend to have more capable amps in them. However, there are often aspects of receivers which will give better sound. Often better room EQ and better bass management for a subwoofer.

 

[Ellebob]

Oops, I seen your going to get the Wiim Ultra. I was typing as you posted.

 

[ZolaIII]

I think I will get the Wiim Ultra tomorrow since I have a pair of active speakers and probably add a sub (since pretty much everyone here recommends that I do - maybe the one you mentioned. Any other cheaper alternatives? ). Wanna try this setup out. It looks more flexible and future proof than the wiim amp pro.

Sooner or later I will move the active speakers to the pc and get an amp like a Yamaha A-S501? and a pair of passive speakers.

What should I look for in the index you linked? I can't really understand the measurements in relation to the music i usually listen to.

Regards

SB-1000 Pro is available costing a little more and being a bit better. A-S 501 is fine I have A-S700 and old R-N402D. WiiM ultra isn't really more versatile other than HDMI ARC input, it still doesn't work as USB DAC. Don't skimp too much on sub as you will have controls just for one.
In Spinorama there is a score without/with sub and same with EQ so that isn't hard. In generally you should watch Amir's videos about measurements and how to interpret and understand them on YouTube and don't worry it will all come in it's place, just give it time.

Audio Science Review

Technical Reviews, Discussions and Measurements of Audio Products. This video channel is an adjunct to Audio Science Review website which contains the same.

youtube.com

Placement is crucial and you are welcomed getting measuring microphone and starting to do your own measurements and EQ-ing.
Feel free to ask anything that you think you don't understand and welcome to ASR.

 

[JIW]

Music like that will produce a lot of distortion but will also mask a lot of distortion. Still, since you don't need high levels and low bass may be detrimental in you living situation, consider some smaller but tonally very accurate speakers with low distortion. Since with the Wiim you need a separate amp, consider some active speakers. Some very good ones are studio monitors. The Genelec 8030C from 478.15€ per unit here, Neumann KH120II from 612.61€ per unit here or Genelec 8040B from 755.46€ per unit here fit into your remaining budget.

 

[uwotm8]

Examples of bands I listen to:
Godless North - Dark Rites of Mystic Order [Full Demo] 1998
Diocletian - Infernos
Infernal War - Into Dead Soil

No offence but it's rather badly recorded underground and the main problem here are records, not speakers.
From classics such as Darkthrone to some Eastern-EU stuff like Mgla

There's a lof of good records.
Even Wes Borland's crazy stuff like that:

If you don't have ~$1.5-2k to spend I'd suggest get a pair of good headphones.

The Genelec 8030C from 478.15€ per unit here, Neumann KH120II from 612.61€ per unit here or Genelec 8040B from 755.46€ per unit

That's the good starting point. I'd add Adam A7Vs, they play such music with ease and a ton of resolution. On that level speakers become somewhat rivals to good cans resolution wise.
Cheap T5Vs are surprisingly good as well, they played Sepultura, beloved Roots, unbeliveable good for that price. But subpar compared to good cans.