Do You Need an External DAC/Headphone Amplifier?

[mindbomb]

I think more tests would reveal problems with the laptop. 0.6v is going to mean some terrible linearity. The snr looks pretty bad in the dashboard already, so a -90db sine wave isn't gonna be pretty.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

I came to the conclusion on my iMac Pro that I needed an external headphone amp, but not an external DAC, to have satisfying headphone listening with my Sennheiser HD580 headphones (pretty much the same as the HD600).

 

[audiobill]

"Measures better than the Ygdrassil". Having heard the Gugnir MB and many onboard sound devices. I think that's all I need to know about using measurements as a predictor for listening.

Do you think something can sound better?

 

[audiobill]

I came to the conclusion on my iMac Pro that I needed an external headphone amp, but not an external DAC, to have satisfying headphone listening with my Sennheiser HD580 headphones (pretty much the same as the HD600).

What if the computer was more powerful?

 

[έχω δίκιο]

What if the computer was more powerful?

That's the primary thing I'm addressing with the O2 Headphone Amplifier -- and probably the output impedance being high on the computer.

 

[garbulky]

Do you think something can sound better?

Sound better than an onboard sound card? Why yes. I have banged two rocks together at one point in my life that I thought sounded better.
P.S. Are you Audiobill on Emotiva forums?

 

[Xulonn]

I think that's all I need to know about using measurements as a predictor for listening futile attempt to disprove my biases with demonstrations of reality.

There - fixed it for you...

...but actually, I'm just being silly, because in reality, your comment is a non sequitur. Amir never claimed that the very tiny lower amount of the SINAD of his laptop output compared to the Schiit indicated that the laptop sounded better at high volumes - which is, if my logic is correct, the only time that SINAD in quiet passages might be detected.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Sound better than an onboard sound card? Why yes. I have banged two rocks together at one point in my life that I thought sounded better.

We're getting into the realm of whether an external trackpad works better than a built-in one. It depends on the quality of the trackpad that the manufacturer included in the notebook computer. Some manufacturers include extremely high quality trackpads and others include whatever lets their laptop retail for $399 or less at Best Buy. Unless you have the same notebook that Amir tested here, you can't draw any conclusions about your notebook's sound subsystem from these tests.

 

[garbulky]

View attachment 14849


There - fixed it for you...

...but actually, I'm just being silly, because in reality, your comment is a non sequitur. Amir never claimed that the very tiny lower amount of the SINAD of his laptop output compared to the Schiit indicated that the laptop sounded better at high volumes - which is, if my logic is correct, the only time that SINAD in quiet passages might be detected.

I was curious about your image. I learned something new about tilting at windmills! Very nice!

"
The phrase comes from an episode in the Cervantes novel wherein protagonist Don Quixote fights windmills that he imagines are giants. A relevant portion of the novel states:

Just then they came in sight of thirty or forty windmills that rise from that plain. And no sooner did Don Quixote see them that he said to his squire, "Fortune is guiding our affairs better than we ourselves could have wished. Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them. With their spoils we shall begin to be rich for this is a righteous war and the removal of so foul a brood from off the face of the earth is a service God will bless."
"What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.
"Those you see over there," replied his master, "with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length."
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone."
— Part 1, Chapter VIII. Of the valourous Don Quixote's success in the dreadful and never before imagined Adventure of the Windmills, with other events worthy of happy record.​

"

Much enjoyed the read. Thanks.

 

[Grave]

Science is evil boooo.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Science is evil boooo.

You should apply for a marketing job at Audioquest.

 

[Xyrium]

I always wonder about subjectivists, especially when they may have never heard, or can recall the true sound of most instruments and their timbre. However, from a subjectivist approach, I suppose if it "sounds" good, it is good. Perhaps some folks actually prefer to avoid the true sound of instruments.

Of course, when you press them with such a query, that is when the "I'll have you know that I played a fortepiano for the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra" lies start pouring in from them.

 

[garbulky]

I always wonder about subjectivists, especially when they may have never heard, or can recall the true sound of most instruments and their timbre. However, from a subjectivist approach, I suppose if it "sounds" good, it is good. Perhaps some folks actually prefer to avoid the true sound of instruments.

Of course, when you press them with such a query, that is when the "I'll have you know that I played a fortepiano for the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra" lies start pouring in from them.

I play a whole bunch of instruments at widely varying degrees of skill. My main interest in audio tends to be the reproduction of acoustic instruments in a stereo field.

 

[esm]

As I know most onboard dac chips are Realtek's. Does anybody know other companys?

Don't forget integrated Intel chipsets. My Lenovo X1 Carbon from a couple of years ago:

$ lspci | fgrep -i audio
00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Audio Controller (rev 09)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP High Definition Audio Controller (rev 03)

 

[amirm]

My laptop audio hardware/codec is from IDT.

 

[Xyrium]

I play a whole bunch of instruments at widely varying degrees of skill. My main interest in audio tends to be the reproduction of acoustic instruments in a stereo field.

I can certainly appreciate that....

 

[Xulonn]

Speaking of bad computer sound, I am currently using the headphone jack in front of my Intel NUC to feed my Topping PA3 amplifier and Paradigm Atom small monitors - and the sound is pretty bad. As soon as my new SMSL DAC arrives, I expect a big improvement in sound quality.

In my low-budget retirement setting, I actually now own four low-power chip amps. Three are decent quality - Trends, SMSL and Topping - and one is a cheapo junker - Lepai, which I designate as "For Emergency Use Only!!!"

 

[garbulky]

Don't forget integrated Intel chipsets. My Lenovo X1 Carbon from a couple of years ago:

$ lspci | fgrep -i audio
00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Audio Controller (rev 09)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Wildcat Point-LP High Definition Audio Controller (rev 03)

I had a Dell Inspiron which had an "Creative Audigy 2" enhancement thingy. Something tells me it was a realtek chip though.

 

[Ron Texas]

Tons of laptops (and Intel NUC's) use the Realtek 283. I never could find published specifications for it, but it is probably a low power, 2 channel version of the 883. I recall it does 44, 48, 96 and 192k PCM at up to 24 bits. Macbooks use a CS DAC.

 

[RayDunzl]

My newish parts-build desktop has Realtek ALC 1220 with some extra output section.

There's no description, to speak of...

"Audio Boost 4: Reward your ears with studio grade sound quality for a true HI-FI experience"

Measured 0.65V unloaded at 60Hz with my Fluke. It's loud enough with my HD650. 103dB at 1V, so maybe 100dB available. Rarely used since I have little powered speakers from 1992 or so and a big ol' system across the room.

With a 10 ft coiled up CheezeCable looping back the front panel line in )on-board ADC) and headphone out:

Unsmoothed FR and Phase:

Distortion:

Impulse:

Step:

0 cross on droop at about 50 ms.