Do You Need an External DAC/Headphone Amplifier?

[Jimster480]

Hi @amirm

How does the Topping do into an 8 ohm load?

The reason I ask is because my MrSpeakers AEON closed are ~14 ohm headphones.

In future, are you able to test all the way down to 8 ohms, since many head-fiers use low impedance planars and lower impedance IEMS.

The Chord Mojo is rated at 8 ohms.

Many thanks

View attachment 14867

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersAeonBook.pdf

I use my Aeon's all the time on my A30 without a problem... it actually doesn't seem to have any frequency response changes as I can plug it into my A30 or my JDS O2 and not be able to tell the difference.

 

[Xyrium]

Does anybody remember listening to sound using the computers built in speaker?

I only remember beeps coming from them, but I was there...

 

[March Audio]

I'm always confused when people think I don't believe in science.

I argue that I waste very little money. Well okay....that last part is not actually true...according to my wife.

Well IIRC in your first posts here you were adamant that spdif sounded better than usb, and that usb was fundamentally worse even though we could scientifically demonstrate this was not the case.

"I don't like the sound of USB audio. I've listened to it on my DC-1 and a few other devices and didn't like it. So anyway, that's the reason. I know measurements and tech say otherwise. But I'm interested in something else. The heart wants what it wants!"

Add to that you are continually questioning the measurement results seen here with a promotion of your uncontrolled subjective views.

Demonstrably unscientific.

 

[Zilfallion]

I use my Aeon's all the time on my A30 without a problem... it actually doesn't seem to have any frequency response changes as I can plug it into my A30 or my JDS O2 and not be able to tell the difference.

That would likely be because the Aeon's have a particularly flat impedance across different frequencies. The biggest changes to sound signature from Output Impedance are often a result of non-flat impedance and the sound change tends to follow the impedance curve.

 

[Jimster480]

That would likely be because the Aeon's have a particularly flat impedance across different frequencies. The biggest changes to sound signature from Output Impedance are often a result of non-flat impedance and the sound change tends to follow the impedance curve.

Yes I know, the impedance response of the Aeon is almost entirely flat.
My PM-2 isn't the case and I can hear a bit of a shift (for the worse unfortunately) so I usually use that headphone with the O2, and leave the Aeon in the A30 (they are stacked).

 

[Xyrium]

That would likely be because the Aeon's have a particularly flat impedance across different frequencies. The biggest changes to sound signature from Output Impedance are often a result of non-flat impedance and the sound change tends to follow the impedance curve.

I was under the impression that it is the phase angle would cause a frequency response shift if the output impedance:headphone impedance ratio was too low?

 

[Jimster480]

I was under the impression that it is the phase angle would cause a frequency response shift if the output impedance:headphone impedance ratio was too low?

Yes I read this somewhere too, but I cannot detect it on the Aeon like some other headphones with different impedance response curves.
So it might be that some headphones really aren't affected by it.

 

[audiobill]

Sound better than an onboard sound card? Why yes. I have banged two rocks together at one point in my life that I thought sounded better.
P.S. Are you Audiobill on Emotiva forums?

I am new not that audiobill sorry. The rocks were better than a dac?

 

[Zilfallion]

I was under the impression that it is the phase angle would cause a frequency response shift if the output impedance:headphone impedance ratio was too low?

The biggest measurable difference I've seen in graphs comes from varied impedance and voltage division. High enough output impedance to majorly affect frequency response usually ends up losing more power in lower impedance areas than the higher impedance areas, which causes the headphone's frequency response to deviate from normal according to the impedance curve.

 

[audiobill]

We're getting into the realm of whether an external trackpad works better than a built-in one. It depends on the quality of the trackpad that the manufacturer included in the notebook computer. Some manufacturers include extremely high quality trackpads and others include whatever lets their laptop retail for $399 or less at Best Buy. Unless you have the same notebook that Amir tested here, you can't draw any conclusions about your notebook's sound subsystem from these tests.

Do different trackpads matter for sound quality, how do you measure that?

 

[oliveoilthansnakeoil]

I had some old boards with SigmaTel and VIA codecs.

VIA! I remember that name. They made low price mainboard chipset. And... Intel killed them.

 

[oliveoilthansnakeoil]

I had a Dell Inspiron which had an "Creative Audigy 2" enhancement thingy. Something tells me it was a realtek chip though.

Creative's internal, external sound cards use dac chips we know(AK, CS, ESS etc...). They make there own controllers(x-fi, audigy, etc..)

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Do different trackpads matter for sound quality, how do you measure that?

You don't measure. You just ask your subjectivist buddies -- you know, the ones who believe that ultra-expensive power cords make belt drive turntables sound better.

 

[Sal1950]

You don't measure. You just ask your subjectivist buddies -- you know, the ones who believe that ultra-expensive power cords make belt drive turntables sound better.

Hey, never forget, everything matters. LOL

 

[audiobill]

You don't measure. You just ask your subjectivist buddies -- you know, the ones who believe that ultra-expensive power cords make belt drive turntables sound better.

I am new here why are you insulting me?

 

[bennetng]

Creative's internal, external sound cards use dac chips we know(AK, CS, ESS etc...). They make there own controllers(x-fi, audigy, etc..)

Yeah. The user-programmable EMU10Kx processor and the kX Project.
https://github.com/kxproject

I even read rumors that they can be used in crypto mining
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12782.msg176865#msg176865

 

[bennetng]

@amirm
How is the jitter on the laptop? I am concerned that there will be a schiit modi-like situation with noise shifting with load, since it shares the board with other components.

also, thd+n vs frequency for the dac, to make sure 1khz isn't an outlier.

I think more tests would reveal problems with the laptop. 0.6v is going to mean some terrible linearity. The snr looks pretty bad in the dashboard already, so a -90db sine wave isn't gonna be pretty.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/intel-hdaudio/intel-hdaudio.html
I am not familiar with laptop audio codecs, if you look into the "Low-tier PC" table, The Intel HD Audio standard for desktop boards states the minimum requirement is 1Vrms.

For example this:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lin...ck-line-out-is-not-amped.628325/#post-8717869

and this (my X-Fi has a 2Vrms I/O, notice the 5dB differences I mentioned)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...gh-of-a-sample-rate-is-enough.4037/post-95240

While I don't understand what it exactly means, according to reviews I read and my own measurements, noise floor can increase when the CPU (and especially GPU) is busy, but not jitter.

 

[dc655321]

I am new here why are you insulting me?

From the site philosophy: "...Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously."

 

[audiobill]

From the site philosophy: "...Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously."

Thank you. I hope that does not mean being insulted when asking a question. I did not see the point of discussing trackpads in a sound conversation, but maybe that person is just much smarter that I.

 

[mindbomb]

While I don't understand what it exactly means, according to reviews I read and my own measurements, noise floor can increase when the CPU (and especially GPU) is busy, but not jitter.

In this thread, https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-s-pdif-vs-usb-which-is-better.1943/ , on the topping d30, higher jitter of spdif results in higher noise. I think that may be happening on the hp laptop also, since the noise is really high.