Do Fancy Audio Cables Make a Difference? (video)

[SmackDaddies]

You are a natural at the video production. Very listenable, good use of graphics. Feel free to talk as long as you want.

 

[respice finem]

...I am thinking about replacing my current turntable but not my cartridge and I am confused by all the hype etc as to what makes the biggest difference...

Only an "outsider advice" because I haven't used a turntable for about 20 years now, but I'm seeing the problems my relatives and friends have with theirs: The single biggest letdown is the terrible quality of many recent pressings (wavy, off center etc.). Seemingly, old machinery is used as long as it will run, and/or the know-how is not on par. Unless you have many good records already, a new "transport" (like the expensive Technics DD) might improve little to nothing. And, cheaper models often have (for me) sub-par workmanship. My Polish turntable from the 90s I gave away one day was far better made than many today's ones below approx. 500 €, nuff said. So, if you have a decent older turntable and a good pickup, keep it and enjoy your records.

 

[Jerry Sobel]

Only an "outsider advice" because I haven't used a turntable for about 20 years now, but I'm seeing the problems my relatives and friends have with theirs: The single biggest letdown is the terrible quality of many recent pressings (wavy, off center etc.). Seemingly, old machinery is used as long as it will run, and/or the know-how is not on par. Unless you have many good records already, a new "transport" (like the expensive Technics DD) might improve little to nothing. And, cheaper models often have (for me) sub-par workmanship. My Polish turntable from the 90s I gave away one day was far better made than many today's ones below approx. 500 €, nuff said. So, if you have a decent older turntable and a good pickup, keep it and enjoy your records.

Thanks! I had a lot of older vinyl that is very flat. It is true about getting wavy new vinyl. I have found that MoFi records are well made.

 

[respice finem]

What is your current "transport" and arm?

 

[nimar]

@amirm These little videos are great, eventually you’ll have a collection on all the audiophile myths which can be pointed to any time someone tells you “but I can hear the difference”.

It’s not equipment per se but I’d love to see one comparing DSD to PCM, say take a dsd256 track, convert it to pcm and analyze the analogue output from a DAC from both.

 

[restorer-john]

It would be great for you to do a video on turntables. What are the things to look for etc. I am thinking about replacing my current turntable but not my cartridge and I am confused by all the hype etc as to what makes the biggest difference. Also, no manufacturers well other than Technics provide any measurements and for them it is Wow and Flutter which for their 1000R table is they claim as low as is measurable.

To measure wow and flutter on the really top performing DDs, you need to tap into the FG coil (or equivalent) and measure/analyze the signal directly. The reason being the turntables greatly exceed the capability of even the very best test records in terms of accuracy. The arms, placement on the spindle etc all contribute to wow and flutter and vary from each test run (and rotation on the platter) to the next. It's an area of testing fraught with issues, especially due to the almost complete lack of truly refererence test records and other test equipment needed for turntable performance verification.

Technics have specified their turntable's W&F since the early 1980s as output directly from the FG coil on the motor itself. (see below) And we also know Technics individually verify their TOTL decks on a dedicated testing station with wow and flutter tested. I also know Rega test their turntables for speed accuracy/wow and flutter with a dedicated measuring device they constructed. How accurate it is however, is a mystery.

This is a typical Technics Quartz locked DD motor from the mid 80s. Notice the PCB circular track? That is the FG coil (frequency governed) for feedback on rotational velocity to the control circuitry. It provides a signal which can be directly analyzed. Notice Test point 28 and Test point 3, they are for that exact purpose.

 

[Jerry Sobel]

What is your current "transport" and arm?

I have a VPI classic signature table and their 3D printed arm

 

[Sombreuil]

For the first time I had the feeling to fully understand your measurements! Thanks for the video.

 

[respice finem]

@ #66: Considering this is an about 35 years old design, it's a good example how difficult to improve some long-time established tech is. Maybe today, you could insert another zero after the comma, but what real benefit would that bring, with any record other than the (probably inexistent) absolutely perfect one?

 

[amirm]

It’s not equipment per se but I’d love to see one comparing DSD to PCM, say take a dsd256 track, convert it to pcm and analyze the analogue output from a DAC from both.

Will put this on my Todo list. I thought I did this for one DAC though but don't remember now.

 

[respice finem]

I have a VPI classic signature table and their 3D printed arm

So, this: https://www.vpiindustries.com/store/p411/CLASSIC_SIGNATURE_(2014).html
Oh happy day... This is something like "the Bentley of turntables" it seems. BTW they do state "minimum" parameters: https://www.vpiindustries.com/uploads/1/2/6/5/126517731/classicsig-manual-2015.pdf
I would say above and beyond any possible audible improvement in the analog world. Even with belt drive, the sheer mass of the platter will make w&f a purely theoretical problem. "300 RPM precision low noise high torque 24 pole AC synchronous motor drives the platter with a pulley accurate to +/- .0005”

 

[Billy Budapest]

See it as a nobilitation. I've known a guy (who sadly died a few years ago), who being himself a studio pro was forced (in Poland late 90s) to be selling consumer HiFi - partly "voodoo" stuff, because otherwise he couldn't make a living. When I first came to his shop, I bought a "B-Stock" pair of B&Ws and asked if I need special cables. He answered, "well, if you ask me, they might help a bit, but only if you strongly believe it". Fair enough. I ended up with a set of "used" Van den Hul cables which became too short for the previous owner (being 4x3,5m, I still don't know what was short about them). Anyway, these "used" ones were relatively inexpensive compared to anything you could buy new back there and then (apart from doorbell wire in a hardware store), and I still have them as well as the old B&W speakers.
tl,dr: What I'm trying to say: if a dealer has a) the knowledge and b) cojones, he doesn't need to lie to his customers, and will keep them coming back. He had the small shop for almost 20 years, while many others had to shut down. The opposite is also true, with me anyway, someone smart enough could feed me some BS, I might fall for it if not obvious (many things I still don't know), but only until I learn...

VDH’s pro stuff is the real deal. Not sure about their hi-fi cables, though. My guess is they are very similar.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Ted Denny of Synergistic Research would be do differ with you. They make super expensive cables, also these tiny things that look like fishing weights that create holographic sound and fuses which are infused with magic pixie dust.

Synergistic Research isn’t the worst of them. Check out Machine Dynamica (which appears to be a joke, but you can never be sure) and Stein Music.

 

[Chrispy]

So, this: https://www.vpiindustries.com/store/p411/CLASSIC_SIGNATURE_(2014).html
Oh happy day... This is something like "the Bentley of turntables" it seems. I would say above and beyond any possible audible improvement in the analog world. Even with belt drive, the sheer mass of the platter will make w&f a purely theoretical problem. "300 RPM precision low noise high torque 24 pole AC synchronous motor drives the platter with a pulley accurate to +/- .0005”

Yet they spec W&F at an unexciting .1% and the speed accuracy is only .1%.

 

[Chrispy]

Synergistic Research isn’t the worst of them. Check out Machine Dynamica (which appears to be a joke, but you can never be sure) and Stein Music.

Ted's definitely up there with the worst, but they're all scum.

 

[respice finem]

VDH’s pro stuff is the real deal. Not sure about their hi-fi cables, though. My guess is they are very similar.

I don't know much about it TBH, it does what it's been made for, the quality is good, not even the lime colour had changed over the years, only the print became a little bleak:

 

[respice finem]

Yet they spec W&F at an unexciting .1% and the speed accuracy is only .1%.

This is a) the minimum and b) would be probably as good as their test record could do (its production process added its own w&f), c) in the worst case, try to hear 0.1% w&f or speed deviation (or: 0.001s in 1s). If they went the direct-drive way, it would be better, but really only on paper - once you brought a 10 kg platter to speed, it's not easy to cause w&f at all (stability through large mass). Same goes for motor vibration, nothing damps it better than mass. This is an advantage compared to today's rather lightweight platters. What's pleasant with those, the Technics (or even its cheap sibling Audio Technica) are instantly up to speed with their direct drives, while this "fattie" will need a few seconds more.
But it might be an option to sell the thing, buy the Technics for half of it and spend the rest for whatever pleases you. It won't be that much different IMHO, because there is so much more imperfection in the records themselves.

 

[Chrispy]

This is a) the minimum and b) would be probably as good as their test record could do, c) in the worst case, try to hear 0.1% w&f. If they went the direct-drive way, it would be better, but only on paper IMHO - once you brought a 10 kg platter to speed, it's not easy to cause w&f at all (stability by mass). Same goes for motor vibration, nothings damps better than mass.

Thanks, but I'll stick with my Technics dd, why I got one in the first place rather than a belt drive.....not that I bother with vinyl much these days....

 

[PeteL]

Another good video that recaps your earlier AudioQuest Wind cable review.

It would be good to add some reviews on well constructed less expensive cables like WBC or Blue Jean cables. The basic question being, "should I be spending $20-50 on a cable set or just using the ones in the box?" I certainly believe that the durability and insulation provided by some of these cables is worth the money (maybe even quality of the copper as well?) but can't say that I can point to actual test results to back that up. I'm sure that there is some information floating around in the corners of the internet that cover this topic but would be good to see a couple of well regarded "reasonable" cables measured here.

One quick point....at around 6:50, when you start describing the noise measurements of both cables, you say that the generic cable demonstrated more noise. Was this what you meant to say? The graph seems to indicate the opposite (even if both lines are below auditable) but I may have been misinterpreting what you were describing.

I believe also in paying for good no nonsense cable. Since I went for BJC, I don't know if the sound improved, but my quality of life improved. Over the years, bad/faulty cables have been the single most frustrating thing in my audiophile journey. Especially when you get to more complex systems, the bad cable that cause a hum or noise is not necessarly the obvious one, lot's of debugging, trouble shooting, time wasted. To me good shielding is also important and sorry 2$ cables don't have that. The thing is serious cable manufacturers for the pro industry like Canare, Belden, Mogami, actually measure their stuff, the have standards and specifications to comply. This comes at a cost. Some savings can be made with DIY, but I hate soldering, and I'm simply not that good at it so my "construction" is not necessarily better than poorly constructed cables. and it defeats the purpose of saving troubleshooting time.

 

[respice finem]

Thanks, but I'll stick with my Technics dd, why I got one in the first place rather than a belt drive.....not that I bother with vinyl much these days....

Sure, as I wrote before, I've left analog sources behind in the past millennium but the question was, if it would make sense to exchange the existing (opulent) turntable. This is a bit different to buying "from scratch".