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Directional interconnects

sjeesjie

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With great interest I read the “Snake Oil Top This” thread on this forum. I was wondering, are these interconnects with arrows on them, i.e. directional RCA interconnects, in fact snake oil or is there more to them?
I’ve read contradicting stories. Some say the cables have shielding that’s supposed to be grounded at one side only. Can someone shed a light on this? Why does a shield need to be grounded anyway?
 
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sjeesjie

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But can someone explain how this shielding works? Is shielding to prevent noise from coming in? How is the grounding connection helping that? And why is only the source - side connected?
 

DVDdoug

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Some say the cables have shielding that’s supposed to be grounded at one side only. Can someone shed a light on this? Why does a shield need to be grounded anyway?
Since RCA connections are unbalanced You need a ground connection at both ends. The shield may be physically connected at only one end but in that case there will be another internal ground wire so ends are electrically connected to the shield.

I don't believe it makes any difference, and long as the shield is grounded and both ends are grounded.

There are situations where you have a ground loop and lifting the ground on one end "fixes" that, but that's a special situation and most of the time un-grounded RCA cables don't work properly.

Is shielding to prevent noise from coming in? How is the grounding connection helping that?
Electromagnetic interference is picked-up by the shield and "shorted to ground" before it gets into the signal wire.

With a balanced/differential connection, only the difference is detected/amplified so any noise picked-up in both connectors gets "canceled out". But balanced audio connections are also shielded so you get double protection. (This is more of a concern with low-level microphone connections because the noise gets amplified by the mic preamp. Guitars use unbalanced connections, plus they are high impedance, so hum/buzz from a guitar is a common problem, even though guitar cables are always shielded.)
 
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yurqqa

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For RCA cables the shield not connected on one end doesn't make sense since the shield is one of 2 "wires" in the cable. SO it has to be connected on both side. What matters is how the grounding is done inside the device.

So direction doesn't make sense also.
It couls make sense for balanced cables where the shielding is just that - the shielding.
 

raindance

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For RCA's with shield connected at only one end, I typically make a joke about someone having discovered how to train certain electrons which path to follow along the cable. It is pure marketing BS and has no impact on performance because a lack of electrical continuity on the return path for unbalanced audio typically means no signal will pass. But all you are paying for is someone to train the electrons; these people are very expensive and specialized ;).
 
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sjeesjie

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I once gad two components connected with eachother through RCA. An amp and a cd player. Both units had proper grounding via mains but it created a ground loop somehow. My take was through the RCA cables. So I lifted the cd player and the humm was gone.
Later I added the cd player to ground again and the humm stayed away. I don’t know what else I changed, maybe cables… maybe the elektrons finally knew what path to follow :-D
 
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sjeesjie

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NTK

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Thanks this explains a lot. It also states that it’s important to have the shield grounded on just one end to prevent ground loops. Maybe I had a cable once that had two ends connected and that created the ground loop.
It also contradicts a couple of the above statements.
There are different opinions on whether the shield should be connected at one end or at both ends. For example, see this blog post:
https://www.emcstandards.co.uk/cable-shield-grounded-at-one-end-only

Below is taken from the pin 1 problem application note from Hypex, which also seems to advocate connecting the shield at both ends.
https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/an_wp/AN_Legacy_pin_1_problems.pdf

pin1.PNG
 
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sjeesjie

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There are different opinions on whether the shield should be connected at one end or at both ends. For example, see this blog post:
https://www.emcstandards.co.uk/cable-shield-grounded-at-one-end-only

Below is taken from the pin 1 problem application note from Hypex, which also seems to advocate connecting the shield at both ends.
https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/an_wp/AN_Legacy_pin_1_problems.pdf

View attachment 146933
Well I had to google this pin 1 problem, but it appears to address a problem in XLR cables, not the RCA’s I was asking about.
 

DonH56

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As others have said (or implied), current is a loop, so you have signal (or send) and return paths, and without that you have no signal. If you stick a battery in a flashlight but only connect one end, you get no light. Cover the (-) end with tape, no current flow, no light -- this is the analogy to not connecting the ground at one end of an RCA cable. Chances are it will work anyway, but now the return is some tortuous path through whatever "ground" it can find, instead of tightly coupled to the signal in the cable. Probably very susceptible to noise and all that jazz.

I have used specialized coaxial cable that comprised inner and outer shield isolated by dielectric (insulation), but AFAIK all RG6 varieties of quad-shielded cable are a center conductor (copper or CCA), dielectric insulation, then shield layers that are not isolated from each other ("shorted together"). The shields are usually foil innermost, then braid, then another foil layer, then a final outer braided shield. The foil provides 100% (or nearly) shielding but is thin and easily torn, so the added layers of braided shielding and extra foil keep a good return path for cables that are run up antenna towers, outside runs, through walls, and other places where they may be damaged or flexed frequently and you want to ensure the shield integrity remains intact.

If you had an interconnect with an outer isolated (insulated) shield, the arrow could indicate the end at which the shield is connected (that is how it is used for XLR cables). Barring that, and my experience and limited searching says this is true, then there is no point in directional arrows on a single-ended interconnect. There is an exception I have seen: MIT cables and probably others may include an internal termination or filter network in their cables, and the arrows let you know which end has the filter. Let the debate about the advisability of using your cables as tone controls commence...

Note the signal path always needs two wires (someplace). A third conductor can be used for a shield in some situations.

For RCA cables, the signal return path and shield are the same. The "battery" is your source, like a DAC or preamp, and the "light" is your load, like your power amp. Both connections, shield/return/ground and center signal need to be made.

For XLR (balanced) cables, the signal send and return are usually a twisted pair (see post above with pictures), and those two are all that is needed to drive the load ("light it up"). The shield is a separate conductor, isolated form the signal pair, and need be connected at only one end to provide shielding for the signal pair.

HTH - Don
 
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DSJR

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Please chaps, you're missing the point here methinks.....

For some reason back in the 90's, all manner of sh*t was used to make up RCA based interconnects and speaker cables, the latter often slim gauge but silver plated (Chord Rumour and Odyssey). For whatever reason and back in the days when 'everything' mattered, we directionalised cablers, fuses (YES, REALLY! :facepalm: ) mats and belts on the LP12 turntable still in 'fruitbox' mode. You name it, we checked it for direction and thought/imagined we heard a difference (these are the days of the green pen on CD's remember). In the turntable's case, I soldiered on with this for a good while until I subsequently heard a deck two thirds the price (UK prices here) which needed next to no setting up other than tonearm and cartridge essentials and which 'sounded' so much more like master tape (I had copies and a well aligned Revox to play 'em on back then) irrespective of the direction of the sodding belt, which way up the mat should be or fuse in the mains plug :D

Worst cables I ever found for this when new were the regular award winning (WTF - sorry, WHF magazine) QED Silver Anniversary speaker cable (god that stuff was cack!) and a particular Chord Company (the cable one) Solid, which was a thin and slightly bendable microwave copper pipe with silver plated? single conductor in a ptfe? insuation inside. So bad was this latter cable that a pal who bought a set, complained the image was shifted to one side, especially female vocals. When I told him to reverse one channel only, he was incredulous but did it and it fixed the problem - read on....

I was told and later kind-of proved it to myself that some of these woo wires did take a 'set' eventually to the point it didn't matter so much but we were so keen back then - and so were our customers......

Fast forward twenty five years to today. I discovered the best sorted cables for the job in terms of gauge (speaker cables) and construction/LCR characteristics/screening of RCA interconnect cables just DON'T HAVE a direction, just plug and play... I'm taling properly screened coax cables connected properly at each end into decent low capacitance RCA plugs (some didn't used to be back in the day). These days, I don't bloody care frankly any more as the music speaks to me and not the gear or the wires used to connect it all. if I forget what's there, I can happily use an Amazon Basics RCA (and also a 3.5mm to RCA) interconnect as it all sounds absolutely fine to me...

I say RCA connections above. Going balanced was a revelation when I owned gear using well executed balanced connections. Most 'cable differences' magically disappeared and direction when making said cables up be damned! I long ago began to use inexpensive install wire for speaker cables (2.5mm so 13 - 14 gauge?) in the main system - 7 to 8m lengths as anything heavier couldn't be hidden around the skirting board and carpet.

So to conclude - I maintain that *properly designed* and specified interconnect cables or speaker wires of more than sufficient gauge and well terminated (we use 4mm plugs more here than spades which can come undone rather too easily I feel (but that's just me) won't have any difference at all (disconnecting them and reconnecting them every year may well make the sound appear 'fresher' due to contact cleaning possibly) and in all honesty, the rubbish often sold at silly prices shouldn't be used for high fidelity sound anyway.
 

Cbdb2

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As it was pointed out in earlier posts, RCA cable with shield connected at only one end makes no sense and won't work.

If the devices connected have ground pins on the power plugs this can become your (bad) signal return, you don't need the RCA ground wire.
Directional RCAs usually have 2 conductors (hot and return (which is ground) and a shield around those. This shield is only connected at one end but that end is shorted to the other end thru the return, so the shield is still connected to both ends. Why bother. Snake oil.
 

AllanMarcus

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For RCA cables the shield not connected on one end doesn't make sense since the shield is one of 2 "wires" in the cable. SO it has to be connected on both side. What matters is how the grounding is done inside the device.

So direction doesn't make sense also.
It couls make sense for balanced cables where the shielding is just that - the shielding.
no, in this case these types of cables have two wires and a shield. For a cable made with RG59, there is a core and shield, so just two "wires". For cables with shield directionality, there are two wires in the cable, and a shield. The shield is connected only at one end. I've made both types of cables. This type of cable has a "floating ground", I believe.

The theory is to shunt any interference into the device that handles ground better. If there is EFI or RFI and you have the cable between DAC and pre amp, one of the two devices might handle the interference better. In theory, moving the interference away from the amplification is best, so the shield connected end of cables would be connected on the source side of each connection. It's all about noise rejection. If you don't have EMI or RFI, then it really doesn't matter.

But these cables do work in that there are effectively three wires connected on one side and two on the other.
 
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