Digital Room Correction - where to start

[vco1]

I'd like to start with the (what seems) beautiful world of DRC. My current setup consists of an RPi 4 streamer (pCP / squeezelite), a DAC/HA, and an amp and speakers. The primary goal is to get rid of some boomy bass at my listening position. Headphone EQ'ing would be a nice bonus.

The options I've identified so far are:
- software-only on the Pi: CamillaDSP
- Hifiberry Digi2 Pro + DSP board and HifiberryOS
- MiniDSP openDRC-DI
- MiniDSP SHD Studio

Given that my experience with DRC and the theory/terminology behind it is practically zero, what would be the 'best' solution? The openDRC-DI is about half the price of the SHD Studio. But would it be (relatively) easy for a novice user to get the same results as with the SHD Studio? Dirac seems to be the most user-friendly. But also the most expensive option.

Do you have any opinions on these solutions? Pros, cons, ease of use, results, quality?

Your help is appreciated.

 

[Willem]

See here for some information on Camilla: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/moode-7-1-and-camilla-dsp.21609/ It all starts with measuring in-room response with REW, however.

 

[Xombul]

I don't know if it is the best Solution, but you could start, for instance, with buying a good microphone, like Umik1 and have a look to REW. REW generates * wav correction files you can play in eAPO (freeware). Another way is to use mathaudio plugin in foobar to do room correction, keeping in mind that for both options a microphone is required.
For a little bit more money, you can buy Audiolense software or any software which can create a wav correction file (REW is free but not so easy to handle).
Instead of Windows+eAPO, MoOde audio+Camilla software is also a very good solution for Pi users.

 

[EB1000]

I'd start with acoustic treatment and then check if if room correction is still needed after that.

 

[Willem]

Measure first. The problem with acoustic treatment is that it is often fugly. Depending on the speakers, two subwoofers may be another route to clean up low frequencys response. Add an automatic Antimode 8033 dsp for just those subwoofers and you do not even have to think yourself.

 

[vco1]

Depending on the speakers, two subwoofers may be another route to clean up low frequencys response.

I live in an apartment. And although it has all thick concrete walls, floors, and ceilings, I'm afraid using a sub - let alone two of these - won't please my neighbours. I don't have experience with this, so I might be wrong. My assumptions are based on what I read on the net and my own thoughts on this. I like my apartment, but for audio it's definitely not ideal. Like most things in life, it's a compromise.

 

[Willem]

Bass peaks are worst for your neighbours and it is precisely those that are addressed by using multiple subwoofers, preferably combined with dsp room eq. Not knowing what speakers you are using, good bookshelf speakers combined with two small subwoofers plus dsp room eq are a tried and tested concept. But measure first - a Umik-1 will not break the bank.

 

[Plod990]

I live in an apartment. And although it has all thick concrete walls, floors, and ceilings, I'm afraid using a sub - let alone two of these - won't please my neighbours. I don't have experience with this, so I might be wrong. My assumptions are based on what I read on the net and my own thoughts on this. I like my apartment, but for audio it's definitely not ideal. Like most things in life, it's a compromise.

I'd like to start with the (what seems) beautiful world of DRC. My current setup consists of an RPi 4 streamer (pCP / squeezelite), a DAC/HA, and an amp and speakers. The primary goal is to get rid of some boomy bass at my listening position. Headphone EQ'ing would be a nice bonus.

The options I've identified so far are:
- software-only on the Pi: CamillaDSP
- Hifiberry Digi2 Pro + DSP board and HifiberryOS
- MiniDSP openDRC-DI
- MiniDSP SHD Studio

Given that my experience with DRC and the theory/terminology behind it is practically zero, what would be the 'best' solution? The openDRC-DI is about half the price of the SHD Studio. But would it be (relatively) easy for a novice user to get the same results as with the SHD Studio? Dirac seems to be the most user-friendly. But also the most expensive option.

Do you have any opinions on these solutions? Pros, cons, ease of use, results, quality?

Your help is appreciated.

Another software option to consider is Roon, if you don’t already use it. Measure your room using REW and then transfer its suggested filter settings to Roons DSP.

 

[Daverz]

CamillaDSP is not too hard to set up on a Pi. You can have CamillaDSP load filters exported as wav files by REW or just read off the EQ values in REW's EQ tool to create peaking filters directly in CamillaDSP.

 

[markus]

I'd like to start with the (what seems) beautiful world of DRC. My current setup consists of an RPi 4 streamer (pCP / squeezelite), a DAC/HA, and an amp and speakers. The primary goal is to get rid of some boomy bass at my listening position. Headphone EQ'ing would be a nice bonus.

The options I've identified so far are:
- software-only on the Pi: CamillaDSP
- Hifiberry Digi2 Pro + DSP board and HifiberryOS
- MiniDSP openDRC-DI
- MiniDSP SHD Studio

Given that my experience with DRC and the theory/terminology behind it is practically zero, what would be the 'best' solution? The openDRC-DI is about half the price of the SHD Studio. But would it be (relatively) easy for a novice user to get the same results as with the SHD Studio? Dirac seems to be the most user-friendly. But also the most expensive option.

Do you have any opinions on these solutions? Pros, cons, ease of use, results, quality?

Your help is appreciated.

If you want something that works without having extensive knowledge in acoustics and psychoacoustics Dirac Live is probably your best option right now – if you also want to actually listen to recordings instead of talking about about room correction all day.
If you want to dive deeper then the next step is to look into "modal equalization". REW and PEQ filters. Read Toole "Sound reproduction" and follow the references in there.
After 2 to 20 years down the rabbit hole you'll find yourself at a place where physics, math, digital signal processing, psychoacoustics and commercial interests try to find common ground.

 

[beneix]

I'd like to start with the (what seems) beautiful world of DRC. My current setup consists of an RPi 4 streamer (pCP / squeezelite), a DAC/HA, and an amp and speakers. The primary goal is to get rid of some boomy bass at my listening position. Headphone EQ'ing would be a nice bonus.

The options I've identified so far are:
- software-only on the Pi: CamillaDSP
- Hifiberry Digi2 Pro + DSP board and HifiberryOS
- MiniDSP openDRC-DI
- MiniDSP SHD Studio

Given that my experience with DRC and the theory/terminology behind it is practically zero, what would be the 'best' solution? The openDRC-DI is about half the price of the SHD Studio. But would it be (relatively) easy for a novice user to get the same results as with the SHD Studio? Dirac seems to be the most user-friendly. But also the most expensive option.

Do you have any opinions on these solutions? Pros, cons, ease of use, results, quality?

Your help is appreciated.

Just found this thread, and I am in a strikingly similar position. My research has yielded almost the same alternatives as yours, though my starting point is slightly different.

Turntable/CD/Squeezebox --> traditional analogue preamp --balanced--> monoblocks driving two full-range speakers

I don't have a sub and don't intend to get one as my speakers go to 22 Hz (at -3dB). I have already done some REW measurements using a HiFiBerry microphone, which gave me an idea of the issues to be corrected.

I am either going to (a) put a room correction unit between the preamp and monoblocks, in which case I need XLR in/out, or (b) put it in the digital chain before the preamp (but then I won't have RC when I play LPs), or (c) splash out on a preamp replacement (e.g. MiniDSP SHD). That makes for the following alternatives:

(a) DSpeaker 2.0
(b) RPi with CamillaDSP and a USB audio interface
(b) MiniDSP OpenDRC-DI (probably using Acourate to generate the filters)
(c) MiniDSP SHD (plus phono amp and headphone amp)

LIke the OP, I do not have prior experience of RC; room treatment is not an option for me and I am happy to learn a bit to get things right (not just depend on automatic calibration algorithms).

Have people got some general comparative views on Dirac Live/Acourate/DSpeaker for stereo (not 2.1 or multi-channel) room correction?

 

[Willem]

I have a DSpeaker Antimode 8033 for my subs, and that is pretty good and very easy. However, the DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 did not measure very well, and also has limited connectivity; in essence, it has been overtaken by better and more modern alternatives. Unless you want to ditch your turntable you will have to either use a RPI with equalization or similar but not equalize the turntable, or use something in between the pre amp and the power amps, but e.g. the Minidsp 2x4HD to import REW filters did not measure great, and is not easy to implement. The alternative is to use the new MiniDSP Flex with Dirac. This can replace your current preamplifier. It has analogue line level inputs, so you will need to add a phono preamp. Finally, even though your main speakers go very deep, adding two small subs may still smoothen response, and over a wider area than DRC can do, because they will have different peaks and dips from your main speakers.
Measurement is a very good idea, and so is buying Floyd Toole's book, even though it is not that specific about DRC other than saying that it is very useful.

 

[beneix]

The alternative is to use the new MiniDSP Flex with Dirac. This can replace your current preamplifier.

Thanks for the reply! I had considered the Flex, but since it only has one output compared to the SHD's two (which would be useful to accommodate a headphone amplifier) and since it starts to approach the SHD once you add balanced outputs, TSR-XLR adapters etc., I was more leaning towards the SHD.

I think the option of putting the room correction in the digital path and foregoing correction on turntable input may be the solution that I can afford. Thanks for the feedback on the 2.0 and 2x4HD. I have also read a few comparisons that suggest that Dirac Live in comparison to Acourate (which I would use with OpenDRC) puts more of a bass-flattering slant on the frequency register, while Acourate is more true to the original mix, so I was a bit hesitant of Dirac.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I don't know what "a more bass-flattering slant on the frequency register" means, how it's being measured, and who (and how objective the person is) that's making the claim. But I don't want to say bad things about either Acourate or, for that matter, Audiolense, both of which have been very favorable reviewed and found to be very fine solutions, albeit with steep learning curves, and both require some sort of convolver to run their corrections file which means they are strictly PC based.

Dirac Live, on the other hand, is almost universally upheld to be every bit as good as those two, and while expensive, is certainly the very easiest for a novice to use and get immediate high quality results with, and it runs on a variety of hardware and software platforms without a convolver.

Something like a miniDSP Flex or SHD will allow the use of Dirac, and provide a one box solution for DAC, Eq, and electronic crossover. The SHD also has an A to D converter, so it can accept the input of a phono preamp, and thus serve as the control center of virtually any kind of 2.2 audio setup imaginable. The Flex can do the same in a smaller, somewhat lower cost format as well.

I have used Dirac since 2015 on my own system, and I think it's about as good as it gets. I think it's more versatile and far easier to learn how to use--especially for a novice. Worth the extra outlay, IMHO.

 

[beneix]

I don't know what "a more bass-flattering slant on the frequency register" means, how it's being measured, and who (and how objective the person is) that's making the claim. But I don't want to say bad things about either Acourate or, for that matter, Audiolense, both of which have been very favorable reviewed and found to be very fine solutions, albeit with steep learning curves, and both require some sort of convolver to run their corrections file which means they are strictly PC based.

Dirac Live, on the other hand, is almost universally upheld to be every bit as good as those two, and while expensive, is certainly the very easiest for a novice to use and get immediate high quality results with, and it runs on a variety of hardware and software platforms without a convolver.

Something like a miniDSP Flex or SHD will allow the use of Dirac, and provide a one box solution for DAC, Eq, and electronic crossover. The SHD also has an A to D converter, so it can accept the input of a phono preamp, and thus serve as the control center of virtually any kind of 2.2 audio setup imaginable. The Flex can do the same in a smaller, somewhat lower cost format as well.

I have used Dirac since 2015 on my own system, and I think it's about as good as it gets. I think it's more versatile and far easier to learn how to use--especially for a novice. Worth the extra outlay, IMHO.

Thanks. I had read somewhere a comparison of Dirac vs. Acourate that suggested that Dirac imposes a "room curve" that lifts bass frequencies (the curve he measured looked like a downhill slope from left to right), while Acourate goes for a flat response. Perhaps this is entirely adjustable via some software so that you can have a flat target curve for Dirac, should you so wish?

 

[Deleted member 23982]

im still pissed that minidsp made nanodigi obsolete (so you can avoid the bad dac of the other ones, and dont need to spent 500-1300) i will probably go the umk-1 + moode/camilladsp route soon (atleast for now, as long i still just use my two Eris E8 without sub)

 

[dominikz]

Perhaps this thread on DRC I started a while ago might be interesting. See links at the bottom of the first post for tests of additional DRCs.

Thanks. I had read somewhere a comparison of Dirac vs. Acourate that suggested that Dirac imposes a "room curve" that lifts bass frequencies (the curve he measured looked like a downhill slope from left to right), while Acourate goes for a flat response. Perhaps this is entirely adjustable via some software so that you can have a flat target curve for Dirac, should you so wish?

Both Dirac Live and Acourate allow you to adjust the target curve.

Personally I found Dirac Live easy to use, great sounding and overall a very good option if you don't have a lot of experience with room correction.

My preferred option at the moment, however, is to do PEQ corrections of the LF response based on MMM in-room measurements done in REW.

I live in an apartment. And although it has all thick concrete walls, floors, and ceilings, I'm afraid using a sub - let alone two of these - won't please my neighbours. I don't have experience with this, so I might be wrong. My assumptions are based on what I read on the net and my own thoughts on this. I like my apartment, but for audio it's definitely not ideal. Like most things in life, it's a compromise.

I have a similar situation and had the same concerns prior to getting a sub, but luckily had no complaints yet. I did however put the sub on some studio monitor decoupling foam to try and reduce vibration transmission to the floor.
We also don't listen very loud, especially not late at night.

IMHO sound quality gain of adding room EQ and a properly integrated sub is really huge. Much more so than e.g. upgrading loudspeakers or electronics (assuming what you have already is reasonably well performing).

Measure first. The problem with acoustic treatment is that it is often fugly. Depending on the speakers, two subwoofers may be another route to clean up low frequencys response.

I agree - IMHO bass response in a non-dedicated room can usually be fixed by loudspeaker/sub positioning and integration, and room EQ.
In a living room context I'd personally only consider room treatment in a few specific cases:
1) To combat flutter echo in very reflective rooms with bare and parallel walls (in normally furnished living rooms I don't expect this to be a big issue)
2) To fix the SBIR dip if your speakers are very close to a wall

Good luck and have fun!

 

[beneix]

Perhaps this thread on DRC I started a while ago might be interesting. See links at the bottom of the first post for tests of additional DRCs.

Thanks a lot – really interesting points made, both here and in your linked thread. I recommend others to read it, not least post #205 on REW. (But you got me going down a rabbit hole reading about MMM!)

For budget reasons, I'll kick off with REW and probably CamillaDSP. If either my brain explodes from figuring out the theory and the computer geekery, or I win the lottery, I will go for Dirac Live.

 

[dominikz]

Thanks a lot – really interesting points made, both here and in your linked thread. I recommend others to read it, not least post #205 on REW. (But you got me going down a rabbit hole reading about MMM!)

For budget reasons, I'll kick off with REW and probably CamillaDSP. If either my brain explodes from figuring out the theory and the computer geekery, or I win the lottery, I will go for Dirac Live.

No worries - glad it was interesting to you!
Regarding MMM - perhaps you'll also find this post useful. There I tried to summarize my basic procedure for MMM measurements and EQ generation in a few more details.
Good luck and enjoy!