Desktop speakers: are you always aware the music is being produced by speakers, or can the speakers "disappear"

[mrmojo]

I have a set of yamaha NX-N500 speakers which I love. I have them on a book shelf about 6 feet apart and 6 feet away from me.

To me, the Yamaha speakers make it sound like the music isn't coming from a speaker, but like the music is coming from a musician in the room with you (as long as you're not playing something too bass heavy) - the speakers "disappear".

I tried placing the yamaha speakers on my desk (literally an arms length away) - they didn't sound as good as on the bookshelf, and they're just too large for a desk.

I have tired the following speakers an arms length away on my desk: iloud micros, audioengine a2, kanto yu4. All these speakers sound alright, but they sound like speakers - they don't have that same effect of making it sound like the musician is in the room , as with the yamaha nx-n500 when they're on the bookshelf.

If I get a pair of high end monitors, like the neumann kh-80 or the focal shape 40 (I don't want anything bigger than this for my desk), would they have the same affect at an arms length as the yamaha nx-n500's ont he bookshelf? That is would the nuemann's make it sound like the music is coming from a musician actually in the room, rather than a speaker?

 

[dorakeg]

I am not sure about the nuemann. However, a good set of speakers + audio gear can have extremely good transparency (assuming it's a well recorded album). You will even be able to point out location of the singer and instrument playing. If you stare hard at the speakers, you can't tell the sound is coming from them. It's like they have disappeared..

Unfortunately, this is mostly only high end gear. For mainstream gear, if you close your eyes, you still can have point out the general location of the singer or instrument, but it will appear "fuzzy" as in it's sometimes there, sometimes not there. But once you open you eyes and look at the speaker, you can tell sound is coming from it...

Having said that, room acoustics is also very important.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Simply put: The illusion of speaker disappearing is mainly dependent on room (reflections) and on the dispersion pattern of the speaker. There is (currently) no consensus about good or bad (yes smooth is good) just different. And thirdly, the further away you sit the more likely you perceive disappearance as room reflection come into the sound and direct sound is less dominant.

A very very rough rule of thumb: the wider the dispersion pattern the more likely the speaker “disappears”. However as always in life there is no free lunch. Often precision in soundstage suffers. Studio monitors often have a more narrow dispersion pattern to minimize room reflections.


Point is: impossible to predict remotely. Try it out what you like and where you favor disappearance and where soundstage gets blurred.

 

[yigitboy]

You are never listening to a concert from 2 feet distance, so i guess it is not possible. Maybe some room dynamics help a little

 

[dasdoing]

you don't hear much of your room in the extreme near field. So trying to hear it will fail. instead try to hear the room in the recording

 

[garbulky]

Let’s not kid ourselves. Yes you are absolutely aware you’re listening to speakers but the illusion is very convincing and you can at times kind of not be able to tell
Where the main sound is coming from.

 

[vert]

My speakers do completely vanish and build a scene, and give the illusion the sound emanates from the middle (where my main computer screen is), most noticeable if there is a singer, who would be "center stage". Nothing high-end: KRK Rokit 5, which Amir tested and liked. To me those are really fine speakers, especially for the $300 I paid, and I don't feel any need to upgrade, OTOH I've never heard Neumanns or Genelecs, so couldn't make a recommendation - other people might find the KRKs lacking. But they do "disappear".

 

[Berwhale]

I tried placing the yamaha speakers on my desk (literally an arms length away) - they didn't sound as good as on the bookshelf, and they're just too large for a desk.

I have tired the following speakers an arms length away on my desk: iloud micros, audioengine a2, kanto yu4. All these speakers sound alright, but they sound like speakers - they don't have that same effect of making it sound like the musician is in the room , as with the yamaha nx-n500 when they're on the bookshelf.

Did you have the tweeters elevated to ear height when testing the monitors on your desk? (i.e not sitting on the desktop, even if they were angled up at your ears). I think it's going to be harder to create the illusion of speaker disappearance if the sound is coming from considerably below ear height.

My iLoud MTMs are setup un mic stands, either side of my monitor and they do disappear. I'd say it's more apparent on some tracks than others.

 

[chuckt62]

Sure, but only when I turn the volume knob all the way down.
Seriously, if you are sitting at your desk listening to music and your brain is telling you that this is a live band playing in front of you, either you've never sat in front of a live band or you need to check the expiration date on your meds.

 

[fpitas]

My speakers do completely vanish and build a scene, and give the illusion the sound emanates from the middle (where my main computer screen is), most noticeable if there is a singer, who would be "center stage". Nothing high-end: KRK Rokit 5, which Amir tested and liked. To me those are really fine speakers, especially for the $300 I paid, and I don't feel any need to upgrade, OTOH I've never heard Neumanns or Genelecs, so couldn't make a recommendation - other people might find the KRKs lacking. But they do "disappear".

Mine, too. It's a 14 foot square room, open at the end where my chair is. The phantom center is at a window between the speakers, and try as I might I cannot hear the individual speakers until a hard pan.

 

[Sokel]

A nice way to disappear speakers is using really low level and try placing them listening to a nice narration (I have a recording of a friend reciting Mayakovsky along with a small ensemble).If you manage to do that chances are that will keep disappear in higher levels.
Distance matters too,the higher -the easier.

 

[carlosatl]

In nature Each sound it it's own speaker. a speaker you purchase will never sound real, it's the uncanny valley.

 

[artiek]

Speakers' ability to disappear is largely due to how they're set up in the environment. Even those little powered studio monitors can disappear in right circumstances. You need to eliminate early reflections on the side walls, keep the front baffle isolated from similarly oriented surfaces nearby (easier said than done with a big monitor sitting between them) and deaden the front wall (the wall behind the speakers) as much as possible. Proper toe in and tweeter height will also have an effect. These variables are different for every speaker. Some are more forgiving than others to the same room conditions.

 

[Somafunk]

I can sit at my desk and be convinced the sound is directly in front of me, to the point that at low volumes I often find myself touching the 8” cone to make sure the audio hasn’t switched to the iMacs speaker.

 

[valerianf]

My Focal speakers are disappearing: they are placed behind the desktop monitor and the subwoofer is under the computer desk.
It is a physical way of doing it.

 

[Keith_W]

I am always aware that I am listening to a speaker. The only time I am not sure is when I am outside, where the directional cues are missing and the frequency response is changed. On most evenings, I walk past my neighbour's house and I hear the most gorgeous violin music. One evening I saw him and commented on his music, and I asked him what speakers he is using. He said that he's practising his violin. His playing is that good!

 

[Anton D]

Live was so good you thought it must be a recording?

If this were diving, I’d say you just pulled off a full reverse audiophile!

 

[carlosatl]

From what ive read, every single sound in nature is its own speaker, 2 way can only emulate that, maybe multi speakers help with realism???

 

[fpitas]

Let’s not kid ourselves. Yes you are absolutely aware you’re listening to speakers but the illusion is very convincing and you can at times kind of not be able to tell
Where the main sound is coming from.

I beg to differ. I can't tell the sound is from the speakers when it's somewhere in between.

 

[carlosatl]

IDK it's better to read into more info about it, maybe it's just that you got used to and familiar with your speakers specs they then sound natural to you?? Psychoacoustics??