Denon PMA-600NE Integrated Amplifier Review

[Deleted member 48726]

Well it really depends on what speakers you plug into it.... with technology as it is today I EXPECT every device I purchase to have atleast minimum spec performance. In the world of audio today so many things sound like complete trash and this world of bluetooth has only made things worse. Only LDAC can sound okay; everything else is pretty much crap for anything but background listening in noisy environments...
The thing is that while this is a probably reused design; they will reuse this internal design in the more fancy stuff all the way up the product stack and just keep adding other extra features while never fixing the audio quality.

You should definitely try the tests in my signature. You remind me of that old man that yells at the clouds.

I seriously doubt you are able to tell the difference between AAC 256 to 320 kbps and lossless. Which is what Bluetooth is transmitting today. In apples products anyway.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

You should definitely try the tests in my signature. You remind me of that old man that yells at the clouds.

I seriously doubt you are able to tell the difference between AAC 256 to 320 kbps and lossless. Which is what Bluetooth is transmitting today. In apples products anyway.

And even if you could hear it, it'd be extremely difficult and of no consequence for listening to music.

It's very impressive to make an amplifier with noise and distortion pushed down to -140dB but you'd probably struggle to hear the difference between such a unit and one whose SINAD was only -60dB.

 

[JSmith]

Sorry to be blunt... but I don't care if I can here "it" or not, I do not want "it" there in a HiFi system. I also appreciate quality design and engineering.

Ignorance is not always bliss.


JSmith

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Sorry to be blunt... but I don't care if I can here "it" or not, I do not want "it" there in a HiFi system. I also appreciate quality design and engineering.

Ignorance is not always bliss.


JSmith

I'd say it's the opposite of ignorance to acknowledge what is audible and not.

That makes you "free" to choose among a myriad of components in different price brackets, knowing that you wouldn't be able to tell them apart past a certain threshold.

That's not ignorance.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

Sorry to be blunt... but I don't care if I can here "it" or not, I do not want "it" there in a HiFi system. I also appreciate quality design and engineering.

Ignorance is not always bliss.


JSmith

Fair enough. We all have our own sets of requirements.

I mean, be clear, I like my super-duper electronics - there's an RME ADI-2 DAC on my desk and perched atop my disgraceful PME520AE in the front room is the Arcam IR-DAC II that I used for serious listening before I bought the RME. There's absolutely no way I could tell you which was which sonically, but you know how it is!

 

[Hammeredklavier]

I'd say it's the opposite of ignorance to acknowledge what is audible and not.

That makes you "free" to choose among a myriad of components in different price brackets, knowing that you wouldn't be able to tell them apart past a certain threshold.

That's not ignorance.

I'd take reliability and wife-friendly aesthetics over an extra 10dB SINAD any day. It's no good having 160dB of dynamic range if it'll be in the bin in 5 years' time or if Mrs Hammeredklavier won't have it in the house!

 

[JSmith]

I'd say it's the opposite of ignorance to acknowledge what is audible and not.

Sure, but I mean I would rather be aware of the devices true measurements than not know. Even if that means I need to buy products that I know measure well to be at peace with my setup and listening experience. Knowledge is power (well not literally Watts of course ).

That said, aesthetics and functionality are important factors as well. I don't see the need to compromise on any aspect.


JSmith

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Sure, but I mean I would rather be aware of the devices true measurements than not know. Even if that means I need to buy products that I know measure well to be at peace with my setup and listening experience. Knowledge is power (well not literally Watts of course ).

That said, aesthetics and functionality are important factors as well. I don't see the need to compromise on any aspect.


JSmith

Explained like that, I agree. -Especially that knowledge isn't J/s.

 

[TonyJZX]

there's a few things that bug me here

1. if the chinese had this kind of measurements would you give them a break? yes/no - so why does denon deserve a break?

2. this is the old 4wd argument... if you pay for alleged capability but you dont use it then are you getting ripped off... ie. I have a 4wd SUV but I never 4wd it - but if the 4wd component is broken then do i feel like I got 'screwed' just because I dont use it... well I paid for it? see where I'm going with this?

3. denon love to sell the 'sizzle' - see all the flowery language... but this is the delivered performance.. one might assume that the end user doesnt care but if the end user doesnt care why is he buying an integrated in the first place? just buy a cheapo AVR?



so to sum up... you're getting sub AVR level performance in an integrated... you're getting a 10 yr old digital stage... you're getting inherited mediocre performance that has been handed down generation after generation... this is lazy.

Also "its only smellz"

Denon PMA-600NE Smells

Hello everyone, I recently bought a Denon PMA-600NE. And I noticed that the amp, right from the box, had some specific smell. Not too strong, not too bad. Something like the smell of an old valve TV when hot. To feel the smell, one has to bring ones's nose really close to the ventilation holes...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and in the end the power isnt even much... so is the juice worth the squeeze....man its hard to justify

 

[wwenze]

Think of it as a $100 DAC + $100 preamp + $100 motorized volume control with remote + $100 amp. That's what an integrated amplifier is.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

there's a few things that bug me here

1. if the chinese had this kind of measurements would you give them a break? yes/no - so why does denon deserve a break?

2. this is the old 4wd argument... if you pay for alleged capability but you dont use it then are you getting ripped off... ie. I have a 4wd SUV but I never 4wd it - but if the 4wd component is broken then do i feel like I got 'screwed' just because I dont use it... well I paid for it? see where I'm going with this?

3. denon love to sell the 'sizzle' - see all the flowery language... but this is the delivered performance.. one might assume that the end user doesnt care but if the end user doesnt care why is he buying an integrated in the first place? just buy a cheapo AVR?



so to sum up... you're getting sub AVR level performance in an integrated... you're getting a 10 yr old digital stage... you're getting inherited mediocre performance that has been handed down generation after generation... this is lazy.

Also "its only smellz"

Denon PMA-600NE Smells

Hello everyone, I recently bought a Denon PMA-600NE. And I noticed that the amp, right from the box, had some specific smell. Not too strong, not too bad. Something like the smell of an old valve TV when hot. To feel the smell, one has to bring ones's nose really close to the ventilation holes...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and in the end the power isnt even much... so is the juice worth the squeeze....man its hard to justify

I would say it's just about price. If this amplifier was £500 I'd move swiftly on. If it was £100, I'd buy two! When I bought my 520AE I was in and out of the shop in 5 minutes. I walked in, asked what ~40-50 watt integrateds were going cheap, and chose the Denon. Cost £135 and eight years on it's going strong and in its second or third system.

That being said, I don't follow the hifi industry anymore, and lose track of things. Just having a quick look at prices for ~50 watt integrated amplifiers for the domestic market these days, they all seem a bit dear. The latest offerings from NAD, Cambridge, Arcam, Audiolab et al. are in the £600-800 range, which seems a lot for what you're getting. Especially with these Class D and 'chip amps', it's an expensive box of fresh air!

 

[DesertHawk]

Think of it as a $100 DAC + $100 preamp + $100 motorized volume control with remote + $100 amp. That's what an integrated amplifier is.

And a free phono stage and Bluetooth

 

[JSmith]

And a free phono stage and Bluetooth

+ free noise, distortion and poor channel balance.


JSmith

 

[DesertHawk]

+ free noise, distortion and poor channel balance.


JSmith

Oh I'm not saying it's great by any stretch. My point, if I even have a point, is that there's a hole in the market for these all in ones and while you can build a much better system piecemeal, it's hard to do so for $400.

 

[TonyJZX]

is this was a Sony STR-D190 $99 receiver or one of those big box stores Pioneer stereo receviers built out of the excess carcasses of those crummy Pioneer AVRs which spring clips then I would sort of let it pass...

you sort of know what you're getting here

but i expect more from the Denons Marantz and even Onkyos of the world

i do not think there's a Yamaha product that is this slack??? even their 301 seems to be passable

 

[Deleted member 48726]

is this was a Sony STR-D190 $99 receiver or one of those big box stores Pioneer stereo receviers built out of the excess carcasses of those crummy Pioneer AVRs which spring clips then I would sort of let it pass...

you sort of know what you're getting here

but i expect more from the Denons Marantz and even Onkyos of the world

i do not think there's a Yamaha product that is this slack??? even their 301 seems to be passable

Maybe apart from the Yamaha A-U671 --> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amaha-a-u671-integrated-amp-dac-review.11512/


Also basis for reality check; the above Yamaha scored 77 SINAD and was just below average then. This Denon is 88 and in "poor" category.
Edited. Looked at wrong number.

 

[Jimster480]

You should definitely try the tests in my signature. You remind me of that old man that yells at the clouds.

I seriously doubt you are able to tell the difference between AAC 256 to 320 kbps and lossless. Which is what Bluetooth is transmitting today. In apples products anyway.

I can tell the difference between anything Bluetooth even through my hi-fi DAC using LDAC and direct connected streamed audio.

is this was a Sony STR-D190 $99 receiver or one of those big box stores Pioneer stereo receviers built out of the excess carcasses of those crummy Pioneer AVRs which spring clips then I would sort of let it pass...

you sort of know what you're getting here

but i expect more from the Denons Marantz and even Onkyos of the world

i do not think there's a Yamaha product that is this slack??? even their 301 seems to be passable

This was my point as well. The fact that you are spending $400 (which is still alot of money) for a name brand product and getting trash tier performance is unacceptable. Especially when the hardware to build near perfect performance is available for under 1/4 of this units cost.

there's a few things that bug me here

1. if the chinese had this kind of measurements would you give them a break? yes/no - so why does denon deserve a break?

2. this is the old 4wd argument... if you pay for alleged capability but you dont use it then are you getting ripped off... ie. I have a 4wd SUV but I never 4wd it - but if the 4wd component is broken then do i feel like I got 'screwed' just because I dont use it... well I paid for it? see where I'm going with this?

3. denon love to sell the 'sizzle' - see all the flowery language... but this is the delivered performance.. one might assume that the end user doesnt care but if the end user doesnt care why is he buying an integrated in the first place? just buy a cheapo AVR?



so to sum up... you're getting sub AVR level performance in an integrated... you're getting a 10 yr old digital stage... you're getting inherited mediocre performance that has been handed down generation after generation... this is lazy.

Also "its only smellz"

Denon PMA-600NE Smells

Hello everyone, I recently bought a Denon PMA-600NE. And I noticed that the amp, right from the box, had some specific smell. Not too strong, not too bad. Something like the smell of an old valve TV when hot. To feel the smell, one has to bring ones's nose really close to the ventilation holes...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and in the end the power isnt even much... so is the juice worth the squeeze....man its hard to justify

1. Yes I would give it a break if it was from an unknown Chinese brand and came with a cheapo pricetag that matched its lack of a brand and low price. If topping released this at a price like this I wouldn't give them any pass.
2. I mean In this case the performance is nowhere near transparent so I would say that anyone using it is "using the functionality". Should be compared to 2wd...

3. Denon is supposed to be a premium brand. I own a few Denon products... I expect better from them.

 

[JSmith]

This Denon is 88

That was only the pre-outs btw...

JSmith

 

[Deleted member 48726]

That was only the pre-outs btw...

JSmith

Oh! True. My bad.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

That channel imbalance and SINAD mismatch will be a wonky volume pot won't it. You often find it with cheap amplifiers at the bottom end of the volume pot.