Denon PMA-600NE Integrated Amplifier Review

[Hammeredklavier]

It was a good price. A brand new amplifier, with multiple inputs (Phono for example) and remote control for just £180. Hard to beat as a first start HiFi amp I must say.

Of course in the link you gave there are quirks, such as it is:

European sound-tuned

Of course just mumbo jumbo marketing waffle.

Exactly. It wouldn't be anyone's first choice for professional mastering or some other super-critical application (although bear in mind that it'd probably null down to at least -80dB against a super-duper Benchmark or whatever the reference is these days). But for £180, it's all anyone really needs for most domestic purposes. It does almost everything, and will give you 20+ years' loyal service, no problem.

 

[Sokel]

I would prefer a preamp with

• all the bells and whistles of a SOTA preamp of the 70ies (channel switching, tone controls, configurable phono inputs, you name it)
• lots of digital inputs (SPDIF, USB, HDMI),
• Wifi, DLNA, BT, streamer
• everyday remote control via IR
• complete remote control and setup via standard HTML (embedded web browser like the Soundcraft UI rack mixer series)
• room EQ,
• sub outputs with matching highpass for the main speakers,
• digital outputs for feeding active speaker systems with digital input.

This means that analog inputs would feed an ADC, the whole signal pocessing is done on the digital side, and analog outputs would need a DAC. It could be designed such that the AD/DA section is located in a properly shielded compartment, or use a 2 box solution.

For future developments which cannot be added via firmware upgrade buy an external box and connect to one of the many digital input.

NAD M66 has all that and more I think.

 

[Overseas]

So now is it an agreement that poor performance and measurement can be described as 'starting HIFI'... I guess anything can be put under this 'starting' label. You know, it is not good but it does not break.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

So now is it an agreement that poor performance and measurement can be described as 'starting HIFI'... I guess anything can be put under this 'starting' label. You know, it is not good but it does not break.

Not breaking is good! So is not costing much!

I think what some of us are saying is that it's sometimes wise to look beyond measurements. Pretty much all mainstream audio products are transparent so you won't actually hear any difference. THD of 0.1% will sound exactly the same as 0.000000000000000000000001%.

 

[restorer-john]

Consumer market is making a huge shift towards small bookshelf+subs and there is really no excuse to be releasing “preamplifier” capable devices without, at the very bare minimum, a high pass for the main/speaker outputs, and preferably PEQ.

Nah. Perhaps in the rare air that is ASR and its followers, but not in the real world.

The Denon also is not a 'preamplifier' at all.

 

[restorer-john]

So now is it an agreement that poor performance and measurement can be described as 'starting HIFI'... I guess anything can be put under this 'starting' label. You know, it is not good but it does not break.

I'd rather have a Denon/Marantz/Sony/Rotel 'starter' amplifier than anything from a Chinese manufacturer.

One will be, as you say, not broken in 10, 20 or even 30 years. The other will be in landfill spewing toxic metals into the groundwater.

And yeah, I fix this stuff. Have done for 40+ years. There's zero comparison. This Denon has all the most important components through hole. That means easy repair and a long life.

 

[Michael Fidler]

I just have to wonder how much more performance Denon could have gotten with the same parts budget and more careful engineering. They should have called @Michael Fidler !

It's a pity as they've got a great economy of scale and parts sourcing on their side. Strange to see a single-layer PCB in 2023, though. It would be easy to go to double-layer, SMT, and make a 'blameless' amplifier with orders of magnitude better performance. I'm guessing the amplifier section is a 'tried and true' design from the 1980s, probably with a bootstrap current source in the VAS!

 

[restorer-john]

It's a pity as they've got a great economy of scale and parts sourcing on their side. Strange to see a single-layer PCB in 2023, though. It would be easy to go to double-layer, SMT, and make a 'blameless' amplifier with orders of magnitude better performance. I'm guessing the amplifier section is a 'tried and true' design from the 1980s, probably with a bootstrap current source in the VAS!

Double or multilayer SMD PCBs are not reliable, especially in an amplifier containing plenty of ventilation slots exposed to the air.

Atmospheric effects are bad enough on single layer, but at least they can be repaired. Put double layer near the ocean or any humid environment and it will fail prematurely.

But this stuff is just cheap, decent performing entry level stuff from Denon. Nothing to get excited or upset about. It works, will make people happy and will likely outlast most other stuff at a similar price. What more do you want??

 

[LTig]

NAD M66 has all that and more I think.

Close, but not all - for € 6000! No reason to replace my AVP (Classé Sigma SSP MK2 I got as demo unit for € 2000 - I'd never ever paid its retail price of also € 6000).

 

[telemike]

Does it make listening to music enjoyable or not?

 

[restorer-john]

Does it make listening to music enjoyable or not?

Depends on the music I guess.

 

[ocinn]

Nah. Perhaps in the rare air that is ASR and its followers, but not in the real world.

Maybe it’s different for you, but for almost everyone I know, spanning from 25-65yrs old, there has been a drastic shift, going towards a bookshelf/monitor + sub setup as opposed to larger towers.

As a live sound professional, I cannot stress enough to my friends how crucial it is to get the sub integration correct. You plain and sinple, cannot get a subwoofer to work correctly without a high pass on the mains (and at a minimum, a form of time alignment).

The Denon also is not a 'preamplifier' at all

Well, IMO, it is somewhat of preamp, since it can take, route and sort analog inputs. In my eyes an integrated amp is just a preamp with a power amp section in the same box. But not getting into that argument right now. My main point that devices like these should offer at bare minimum, a 2 way crossover.

The Sabaj A30 can do it which is the step in the right direction for passive speaker users, IMO.

 

[Michael Fidler]

Double or multilayer SMD PCBs are not reliable, especially in an amplifier containing plenty of ventilation slots exposed to the air.

Atmospheric effects are bad enough on single layer, but at least they can be repaired. Put double layer near the ocean or any humid environment and it will fail prematurely.

But this stuff is just cheap, decent performing entry level stuff from Denon. Nothing to get excited or upset about. It works, will make people happy and will likely outlast most other stuff at a similar price. What more do you want??

I'm not so sure about that, to be honest, I've seen plenty of dry joints and broken tracks on single-sided (non PTH) through-hole PCBs... It could also be improved with standard double-sided through hole to a great degree. You could use miniature parts such as 0318 resistors to get loop area down in the power amplifier section.

As far as atmospheric effects go in an enclosure like this, I would be inclined to think most of the air is flowing past the heatsink fins and the slightly higher internal temperatures would tend to reduce humidity. There's no need to use very small SMT parts for this design which would improve reliability nicely. SAC305 seems to work well from what I've seen in the wild.

The performance of this amp would be OK for the 1980s but I really feel this kind of construction (look at all those wire jumpers!) isn't really suitable for the 20th century. Hopefully the company will re-evaluate this design soon.

 

[pma]

I have hated wiring and this and similar board design with wire jumpers even 25 years ago. No wonder the S/N results. Denon is saving expenditures. I do not believe they would redesign it.

 

[restorer-john]

I'm not so sure about that, to be honest, I've seen plenty of dry joints and broken tracks on single-sided (non PTH) through-hole PCBs... It could also be improved with standard double-sided through hole to a great degree. You could use miniature parts such as 0318 resistors to get loop area down in the power amplifier section.

As far as atmospheric effects go in an enclosure like this, I would be inclined to think most of the air is flowing past the heatsink fins and the slightly higher internal temperatures would tend to reduce humidity. There's no need to use very small SMT parts for this design which would improve reliability nicely. SAC305 seems to work well from what I've seen in the wild.

The performance of this amp would be OK for the 1980s but I really feel this kind of construction (look at all those wire jumpers!) isn't really suitable for the 20th century. Hopefully the company will re-evaluate this design soon.

You might think air just flows directly past the heatsinks, but you'd be wrong, very wrong.

Putting low dissipation, low operating temp PCB in a sealed can is way different to a power amplifier stage, being used in every corner of the earth in wildly varying conditions.

 

[TurtlePaul]

IMO the correlation of SINAD and audibility is just the “parameter” that most of the tech numbers oriented ASR members do not understand at all, exaggerating its importance.

Importance of SINAD is way overstated. But 65 dB SINAD in one channel is embarrassingly to the level where this amp has more distortion at 1 kHz than some speakers (which can be 0.1-0.2% in the midrange). Amps should never have higher distortion than speakers.

 

[Hammeredklavier]

It works, will make people happy and will likely outlast most other stuff at a similar price. What more do you want??

That would certainly be my view!

 

[Michael Fidler]

You might think air just flows directly past the heatsinks, but you'd be wrong, very wrong.

Putting low dissipation, low operating temp PCB in a sealed can is way different to a power amplifier stage, being used in every corner of the earth in wildly varying conditions.

I'm not sure, I've seen good and bad out there in the wild, although I would tend to agree that THT has better reliabilty.

In any case this would be greatly improved by using a double-sided PCB regardless of component technology. I think we could definitely agree that adding PTH and getting rid of the wire jumpers would improve reliabilty!

 

[restorer-john]

But 65 dB SINAD in one channel is embarrassingly to the level where this amp has more distortion at 1 kHz than some speakers (which can be 0.1-0.2% in the midrange).

Bear in mind, we do not know the input level Amir drove the amplifier in that test. The 600 may be just like the 500 with an active buffer in 'no' direct mode and, depending on the input level he drove it, he may have caused the poor showing by mistakenly overdriving the input. It is rated for ~100mV with a 46dB (200x) power stage behind it...

Moral: Test against published specifications. Don't make up your own ideas on what is right and what isn't and don't assign a score based on your flawed assumptions.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Moral: Test against published specifications. Don't make up your own ideas on what is right and what isn't and don't assign a score based on your flawed assumptions.

The test is set for 5W into 8 ohm with the volume on the amp set to 29 dB. You can see on the readout that he is close but gain is slightly low, about 27x voltage gain. 5 W is about 6.3 volts at 8 ohm. Therefore, input is about 230 mV. Check my math, doing this on my phone at the airport before coffee.

It is 2023, not 1973. Amps should be able to consistently expect up to 2V at the RCAs.