Denon 4800h setup help

[Danskir]

Hi All,
Thanks to Amir’s detailed reviews and the ASR community, I’m a proud owner of a brand new x4800h! I’ve replaced my old pioneer elite SC-65 with this and haven’t looked back. I’m very happy with this upgrade, but I’m used to the 12 year old technology in my SC-65. Between Atmos, DTS- x, Auro-3d, EARC, etc., I’ve got some setup questions that I’m hoping you guys could help me with.

In my living room I have a 6.0 system as follows:
- 2 Front speakers - Kef R3’s
- No Center - phantom center
- 2 Surround speakers - klipsch in ceiling to the sides of main sofa listening positions
- 2 Surround backs - klipsch in wall about 4ft behind the listening positions, lined up with the in ceiling surrounds and positioned 6ft high.
- no subwoofer

My questions:
- would the best setup for watching ATMOS encoded movies be using the in ceiling speakers as height speakers and the back surrounds as surrounds? Or, should I continue using the in ceiling surrounds as surrounds and the backs as surround backs?

- Between Atmos, DTS- x, Auro-3d - which do you think is better for movies, music, tv?

I’ll usually either just use 2ch stereo or multi ch stereo for music. For TV and Movies, my previous receiver had an “optimum” setting which made the bass pop and sound clear. With the x4800h, it seems to default to Dolby surround if it isn’t encoded with ATMOS. Would you recommend another setting?

- My TV is a Samsung s95b QD-OLED. I’m watching all content using the TV’s smart features. The TV audio signal is being sent to the x4800h via EARC hdmi. The TV can supposedly encode audio content to lossless ATMOS and sends it via EARC. Is this the best use of my system? If I used a nvidia shield pro (or some other streamer) and plugged it directly into the x4800h would video quality be improved to the TV? Would audio quality be better?

Thanks so much for all the advice.

 

[Golfx]

Hi, as you suggested you can better use your in ceiling speakers as your atmos speakers and your backs as your new surrounds. It would create the intended overhead sensation depending on where your main listening position is located below.

Regarding which codec to watch movies with, if the movie is in Atmos either being received as Dolby TrueHD or Dolby
Digital+the 4800 will mandatorily play it in Atmos. This is really the best codec for movies, TV shows and now spatial music as well. And yes Dolby Surround is an excellent movie substitute codec when the stream is not atmos.

I enjoy using Auro 3D upmixer called auromatic for listening to PCM stereo music rather than just stereo. It presents a nice auditorium effect.

I would definitely recommend you get a center channel. It will greatly improve your movie/TV audio and then the next upgrade should be a subwoofer. Both will make an immersive experience with no real comparison without them. Kind of like swimming versus taking a bath (stolen phrase from Mark Twain). Both will also improve a wall of sound presentation using auromatic upmixer for music.

Regarding eARC versus direct connect from a streamer, you are correct eARC does transfer lossless sound so there is no need to worry about audio “completeness.” Your ears cannot hear above 20 KHz and CD quality is double that to 44khz. It will also transfer Movie/Tv Atmos in Dolby Digital +. But not Dolby True HD which you will only get from a Blu-ray or 4K disc.

Regarding your setup, have you run room correction software yet? Audyssey or Dirac can help you adjust the sound to your liking. Again you need to consider a center speaker and sub purchase.

 

[techsamurai]

I would seriously urge you to do REW measurements of the 4800h as Audyssey XT32 is not as accurate as they hype it to be and in my case has yielded the worst results I've encountered with Audyssey. Unless you win the jackpot and it accidentally measures like an older version of MultEq but I can point you to some clips to know if you've hit it or not. They should floor you with the right calibration.

 

[Danskir]

I would seriously urge you to do REW measurements of the 4800h as Audyssey XT32 is not as accurate as they hype it to be and in my case has yielded the worst results I've encountered with Audyssey. Unless you win the jackpot and it accidentally measures like an older version of MultEq but I can point you to some clips to know if you've hit it or not. They should floor you with the right calibration

Yes, used the calibration mic and software it comes with. I’m definitely game to try something else, if you think it would improve it. Clips would be great.

 

[Danskir]

Hi, as you suggested you can better use your in ceiling speakers as your atmos speakers and your backs as your new surrounds. It would create the intended overhead sensation depending on where your main listening position is located below.

Regarding which codec to watch movies with, if the movie is in Atmos either being received as Dolby TrueHD or Dolby
Digital+the 4800 will mandatorily play it in Atmos. This is really the best codec for movies, TV shows and now spatial music as well. And yes Dolby Surround is an excellent movie substitute codec when the stream is not atmos.

I enjoy using Auro 3D upmixer called auromatic for listening to PCM stereo music rather than just stereo. It presents a nice auditorium effect.

I would definitely recommend you get a center channel. It will greatly improve your movie/TV audio and then the next upgrade should be a subwoofer. Both will make an immersive experience with no real comparison without them. Kind of like swimming versus taking a bath (stolen phrase from Mark Twain). Both will also improve a wall of sound presentation using auromatic upmixer for music.

Regarding eARC versus direct connect from a streamer, you are correct eARC does transfer lossless sound so there is no need to worry about audio “completeness.” Your ears cannot hear above 20 KHz and CD quality is double that to 44khz. It will also transfer Movie/Tv Atmos in Dolby Digital +. But not Dolby True HD which you will only get from a Blu-ray or 4K disc.

Regarding your setup, have you run room correction software yet? Audyssey or Dirac can help you adjust the sound to your liking. Again you need to consider a center speaker and sub purchase

Yes, ran audyssey. Can’t bring myself to pay the $300 for Dirac despite how amazing people say it is. I’ll probably warm up to in a year or so. Re. The center speaker - I was planning to purchase a slim center speaker like goldenear or something similar because there’s space constraints. However, everyone on here thought it would take away from the kef fronts (I believe out of the 3 speakers 70% of the audio comes from the center and the R3’s are superior). Contemplating a subwoofer though.

 

[techsamurai]

Yes, used the calibration mic and software it comes with. I’m definitely game to try something else, if you think it would improve it. Clips would be great.

The first thing is to check voices and guitars. I've offered a few clips from the Gipsy Kings on the following posts:

Struggle replacing Old AVR - tried RZ50, 4800h, and Cinema 70 - what now?

Speaking of upgrade hell, I find myself in the middle of it after trying 3 new AVRs My Marantz 8002s (3 of them) are getting old and I'd like to get HDMI 2.1 and eArc. I also thought I could go separates and use the 8002s as an external amp as they certainly have better power than almost any...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Also Diana Krall is excellent but you can pick your own artist. You'll know when you hear it.

For bass (and highs), I use U96 DJ Mellow Mix 5:00 to 7:00 - you can see in my measurements that the 8002 allows my L+R dip to 25hz with authority. I didn't use a sub for 13 years but it's now been made clear why I didn't need one but my ears also help and they are almost capable of detecting a few hz variations. I added a sub and I like it but the B&W 703s bass paper cone woofers have texture that goes for miles and miles. The SVS 3000 Micro sounds boomy and shakes the room but it's ok. But with a Xover of 40hz it does allow the B&W's and the AVR to compose themselves for the rest of the spectrum and that's palpable.

You can see the REW measurements between the old AVR and the 4800h. I ended up buying a Cinema 70 to ref the situation and it was able to come closer but still needed an improvement despite having the same version of Audyssey as my 15 year old AVR but you can see how the modified Cinema 70 settings even with 9 band EQ are a better curve and tracks the 8002 better.

 

[Golfx]

Yes, ran audyssey. Can’t bring myself to pay the $300 for Dirac despite how amazing people say it is. I’ll probably warm up to in a year or so. Re. The center speaker - I was planning to purchase a slim center speaker like goldenear or something similar because there’s space constraints. However, everyone on here thought it would take away from the kef fronts (I believe out of the 3 speakers 70% of the audio comes from the center and the R3’s are superior). Contemplating a subwoofer though.

Why not just buy a 3rd R3 and use it for your center. So it would blend perfectly and not destroy the positive effect of having better LR.

 

[techsamurai]

- My TV is a Samsung s95b QD-OLED. I’m watching all content using the TV’s smart features. The TV audio signal is being sent to the x4800h via EARC hdmi. The TV can supposedly encode audio content to lossless ATMOS and sends it via EARC. Is this the best use of my system? If I used a nvidia shield pro (or some other streamer) and plugged it directly into the x4800h would video quality be improved to the TV? Would audio quality be better?

I've been getting sound drops with Arc and people say it's the new firmware. Optical takes care of it but drops to old formats limited to 1.5mbps for DTS.

Is yours dropping out?

eArc is supposed to handle the highest audio codecs so you should be fine. Arc and Optical is more compressed but still sounds amazing and some prefer it occasionally - our ears can be overwhelmed by too much detail and clarity a la soap opera effect.

The thing about visual quality is that it depends on the device and app. Caleb Denison (Digital Trends) talked about it recently in one of his Q&A videos - he uses Apple TV, not perfect but generally consistent.

 

[phn]

Yes, ran audyssey. Can’t bring myself to pay the $300 for Dirac despite how amazing people say it is. I’ll probably warm up to in a year or so. Re. The center speaker - I was planning to purchase a slim center speaker like goldenear or something similar because there’s space constraints. However, everyone on here thought it would take away from the kef fronts (I believe out of the 3 speakers 70% of the audio comes from the center and the R3’s are superior). Contemplating a subwoofer though.

Do buy the USD20 Audyssey App though, it is the only way you can start enjoying Audyssey as it is intended imho, as you can rid the Midrange dip, tweak levels and distances etc. How I use it I make an measurement, save that as the original, then do two copies and versions for it, one for my 2CH music in Preset 1, another for movies in Preset 2.

I've not tried Dirac yet either, while I am about the dish the dollars for the Audyssey MultEQ-X PC software to unleash Audyssey to its full power.

 

[Danskir]

The first thing is to check voices and guitars. I've offered a few clips from the Gipsy Kings on the following posts:

Struggle replacing Old AVR - tried RZ50, 4800h, and Cinema 70 - what now?

Speaking of upgrade hell, I find myself in the middle of it after trying 3 new AVRs My Marantz 8002s (3 of them) are getting old and I'd like to get HDMI 2.1 and eArc. I also thought I could go separates and use the 8002s as an external amp as they certainly have better power than almost any...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Also Diana Krall is excellent but you can pick your own artist. You'll know when you hear it.

For bass (and highs), I use U96 DJ Mellow Mix 5:00 to 7:00 - you can see in my measurements that the 8002 allows my L+R dip to 25hz with authority. I didn't use a sub for 13 years but it's now been made clear why I didn't need one but my ears also help and they are almost capable of detecting a few hz variations. I added a sub and I like it but the B&W 703s bass paper cone woofers have texture that goes for miles and miles. The SVS 3000 Micro sounds boomy and shakes the room but it's ok. But with a Xover of 40hz it does allow the B&W's and the AVR to compose themselves for the rest of the spectrum and that's palpable.

You can see the REW measurements between the old AVR and the 4800h. I ended up buying a Cinema 70 to ref the situation and it was able to come closer but still needed an improvement despite having the same version of Audyssey as my 15 year old AVR but you can see how the modified Cinema 70 settings even with 9 band EQ are a better curve and tracks the 8002 better.

Thanks, will play with this.

 

[Danskir]

Why not just buy a 3rd R3 and use it for your center. So it would blend perfectly and not destroy the positive effect of having better LR.

We have a fireplace below the tv that only allows for a low profile center. And no space above. We’re fairly happy with how it sounds though.

 

[Danskir]

I've been getting sound drops with Arc and people say it's the new firmware. Optical takes care of it but drops to old formats limited to 1.5mbps for DTS.

Is yours dropping out?

eArc is supposed to handle the highest audio codecs so you should be fine. Arc and Optical is more compressed but still sounds amazing and some prefer it occasionally - our ears can be overwhelmed by too much detail and clarity a la soap opera effect.

The thing about visual quality is that it depends on the device and app. Caleb Denison (Digital Trends) talked about it recently in one of his Q&A videos - he uses Apple TV, not perfect but generally consistent.

No drops… yet

 

[Miker 1102]

Do buy the USD20 Audyssey App though, it is the only way you can start enjoying Audyssey as it is intended imho, as you can rid the Midrange dip, tweak levels and distances etc. How I use it I make an measurement, save that as the original, then do two copies and versions for it, one for my 2CH music in Preset 1, another for movies in Preset 2.

I've not tried Dirac yet either, while I am about the dish the dollars for the Audyssey MultEQ-X PC software to unleash Audyssey to its full power.

Yeah. I also use that app to limit the range of sound that Audyssey is correcting and to add a boost to the curve. The app is kind of a pain on the phone. I have used Dirac in the room I am in. The clarity was nice but I thought it was not a game changer. I guess the sybwoofer control is? Lol. I may quit chasing that elusive next thing.