Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

[BDWoody]

Many here will never know because they’re too content (and arrogant) believing their systems totaling $1.5K are as good as hi-fi gets—their greatest aspiration being to own a pair metallic sounding Revels someday.

Uh huh.

 

[helom]

Uh huh.

How many here have heard a true high-end system? Probably 5% at most. I’m not talking six-figure systems, but I have yet to hear one under $5K that really impressed following my experiences with $15K+ systems. It’s relative though, that part is true. Of course, a Topping-fronted system with a Purifi kit amp and some M16s or R3s will knock the socks off those coming from portable Bluetooth speakers, which is probably the case for a vast majority here (coming from Bluetooth speakers that is).

On the topic of DACs, yeah, I’d agree that these days, there’s little reason to spend more than $100 on a delta-sigma type if that’s your jam. I currently have an old Topping D20 and Questyle CMA 12 in house ($1500) The latter does indeed sound better than the former but not anywhere near $1400 worth. My considerable experience has led me to realize conventional DACs are typically about as effective as cables in dictating a system’s sound, just a tiny bit more influence in most cases. That is for conventional DACs. Now some will indeed prefer delta-sigma to a competent R2R. And some won’t be able to hear a difference, either because of system, room or hearing limitations. But let’s be real, many here are only seeking purchase affirmation for their $100 Toppings/SMSLs, and their $300 JBLs. I get it, I was once constrained to such budgets as well. And no, I’m not a total subjectivist, I do believe measurements matter to a large extent. Still, I can’t deny what I’ve heard.

 

[voodooless]

Why do you think the price of a product has anything to do with its performance?

 

[Lupin]

^
That is the difference between an objective and subjective audiophile.

Objective audiophile measures performance using an Audio Precision APx555
Subjective audiophile measures performance by how much something costs, it's more expensive and therefor automatically better.

 

[raif71]

^
That is the difference between an objective and subjective audiophile.

Objective audiophile measures performance using an Audio Precision APx555
Subjective audiophile measures performance by how much something costs, it's more expensive and therefor automatically better.

I hope this is not the view of all objectivists toward subjectivists

 

[Lupin]

But let’s be real, many here are only seeking purchase affirmation for their $100 Toppings/SMSLs, and their $300 JBLs.

Ok now lets get super cereal real.. who do you think is more desperate for "purchase affirmation", the one who spend $139 on a DAC or the one who spend $30.000+ on a DAC?

 

[Killingbeans]

It’s a more raw conversion in the case of the Denafrips DACs. And their rendition of a 24bit 1kHz sinewave is smooth as can be.

Huh?

I think I need a bit more explanation on that? How do you define a "smooth sinewave"?

Nice to know that all those poor chaps, who design ultra precise function generators, can just throw them in the bin and use a Denafrips instead

 

[Veri]

Huh?

I think I need a bit more explanation on that? How do you define a "smooth sinewave"?

Nice to know that all those poor chaps, who design ultra precise function generators, can just throw them in the bin and use a Denafrips instead

I think GoldenSound demonstrably proved the output is far from smooth, the NOS setting doesn't even function as advertised. The linearity is also very hard to measure since the DAC behaves so strangely and unexpected.

But yes. Very "smooth", very "analogue"...

 

[helom]

Why do you think the price of a product has anything to do with its performance?

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. Pricier components do tend to use better quality parts, though sometimes the implementation of those parts negates any potential advantage.

 

[voodooless]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t.

Then don’t throw around prices..

better quality parts

That is a common trope.. what are those? What metrics improve with so called better quality parts? If a 150 dollar DAC can reach 22 bit of accuracy, what better parts do we need?

Still love to hear about those smooth sine waves…

 

[Killingbeans]

Of course, a Topping-fronted system with a Purifi kit amp and some M16s or R3s will knock the socks off those coming from portable Bluetooth speakers, which is probably the case for a vast majority here (coming from Bluetooth speakers that is).

I think the demographics of ASR will surprise you once you get a better picture of them

 

[Zensō]

How many here have heard a true high-end system? Probably 5% at most. I’m not talking six-figure systems, but I have yet to hear one under $5K that really impressed following my experiences with $15K+ systems. It’s relative though, that part is true. Of course, a Topping-fronted system with a Purifi kit amp and some M16s or R3s will knock the socks off those coming from portable Bluetooth speakers, which is probably the case for a vast majority here (coming from Bluetooth speakers that is).

But let’s be real, many here are only seeking purchase affirmation for their $100 Toppings/SMSLs, and their $300 JBLs. I get it, I was once constrained to such budgets as well. And no, I’m not a total subjectivist, I do believe measurements matter to a large extent. Still, I can’t deny what I’ve heard.

You sure seem to know a lot about the experience and intentions of the readership here. I might suggest making fewer assumptions about what types of systems others have or haven’t heard. Frankly, this attitude comes across as arrogant and rude, to say the least.

 

[Rottmannash]

You sure seem to know a lot about the experience and intentions of the readership here. I might suggest making fewer assumptions about what types of systems others have or haven’t heard. Frankly, this attitude comes across as arrogant and rude, to say the least.

There's a thread somewhere on ASR asking members how much their system cost and I seem to recall many are way over the $5,000 mark.

 

[Rottmannash]

How many here have heard a true high-end system? Probably 5% at most. I’m not talking six-figure systems, but I have yet to hear one under $5K that really impressed following my experiences with $15K+ systems. It’s relative though, that part is true. Of course, a Topping-fronted system with a Purifi kit amp and some M16s or R3s will knock the socks off those coming from portable Bluetooth speakers, which is probably the case for a vast majority here (coming from Bluetooth speakers that is).

On the topic of DACs, yeah, I’d agree that these days, there’s little reason to spend more than $100 on a delta-sigma type if that’s your jam. I currently have an old Topping D20 and Questyle CMA 12 in house ($1500) The latter does indeed sound better than the former but not anywhere near $1400 worth. My considerable experience has led me to realize conventional DACs are typically about as effective as cables in dictating a system’s sound, just a tiny bit more influence in most cases. That is for conventional DACs. Now some will indeed prefer delta-sigma to a competent R2R. And some won’t be able to hear a difference, either because of system, room or hearing limitations. But let’s be real, many here are only seeking purchase affirmation for their $100 Toppings/SMSLs, and their $300 JBLs. I get it, I was once constrained to such budgets as well. And no, I’m not a total subjectivist, I do believe measurements matter to a large extent. Still, I can’t deny what I’ve heard.

You do know it's not that difficult to go to a retailer and hear systems as expensive as one could possibly want. You make it sound as if only the super rich have heard high dollar, high quality audio.

 

[maverickronin]

How many here have heard a true high-end system? Probably 5% at most. I’m not talking six-figure systems, but I have yet to hear one under $5K that really impressed following my experiences with $15K+ systems.

You do know it's not that difficult to go to a retailer and hear systems as expensive as one could possibly want. You make it sound as if only the super rich have heard high dollar, high quality audio.

Or go to shows and attempt to suppress laughter when a system that costs more than my house doesn't sound very good...

 

[helom]

You do know it's not that difficult to go to a retailer and hear systems as expensive as one could possibly want. You make it sound as if only the super rich have heard high dollar, high quality audio.

I don’t know any in this hobby who have substantial experience and haven’t come to the conclusion that you generally get what you pay for. Is it really so hard to conceptualize that audio might be like most things in life? That the better stuff tends to cost more?

I’ve come to realize that audio is much like the automotive world. You can buy a relatively inexpensive sports car like a Corvette that posts similar numbers to a Ferrari in everything that you would think matters, at least on paper: skidpad, slalom, quarter-mile time, top speed… but anyone who has driven both a Vette and a 458 Italia would tell you the Italia is the more enjoyable driver’s car, as it bloody well should be. You could insert a Porsche into this analogy and it would still be valid. Audio is similar though high-end sound is definitely more affordable than high-end motoring.

And similar to cars, there does exist overpriced audio equipment, as is sometimes revealed by measurements, sometimes by listening. This forum is good for helping us weed out the products that do indeed measure terribly, but it’s not the last word in what sounds good. Take the Focal Aria 936 for example—a completely mediocre speaker if there ever was one. Its unnatural midrange, metallic overtones and smearing of notes is not obvious in the measurement graphs, yet it’s clearly audible, even through Youtube demos.

But don’t take my word for it, go have a listen to a few high-end systems setup by those who do so by ear. Wait…nevermind, that’s right, no need to go through that trouble because you have good ol’ Floyd Toole to tell you what to like.

 

[helom]

Or go to shows and attempt to suppress laughter when a system that costs more than my house doesn't sound very good...

That’s not unusual at shows, though you might not laugh had you a chance to hear many of those same systems in the manufacturer’s or dealers’ showrooms, or in a home where the owner has had substantial time to fine tune the system to the room. Of course, there are also situations where demonstrators simply have poor taste in sound, and/or lack experience in setting up systems.

And there is the diminishing returns factor, the point of which seems slightly different for every individual. Lastly, let’s not forget that experience and aptitude as a listener matters also. Even Harman would agree.

 

[helom]

I think the demographics of ASR will surprise you once you get a better picture of them

Doubtful

 

[helom]

There's a thread somewhere on ASR asking members how much their system cost and I seem to recall many are way over the $5,000 mark.

Yeah, well this is the internet, nothing stopping folks from claiming they’re hung like Ron Jeremy either.

 

[Maki]

I don’t know any in this hobby who have substantial experience and haven’t come to the conclusion that you generally get what you pay for. Is it really so hard to conceptualize that audio might be like most things in life? That the better stuff tends to cost more?

I’ve come to realize that audio is much like the automotive world. You can buy a relatively inexpensive sports car like a Corvette that posts similar numbers to a Ferrari in everything that you would think matters, at least on paper: skidpad, slalom, quarter-mile time, top speed… but anyone who has driven both a Vette and a 458 Italia would tell you the Italia is the more enjoyable driver’s car, as it bloody well should be. You could insert a Porsche into this analogy and it would still be valid. Audio is similar though high-end sound is definitely more affordable than high-end motoring.

And similar to cars, there does exist overpriced audio equipment, as is sometimes revealed by measurements, sometimes by listening. This forum is good for helping us weed out the products that do indeed measure terribly, but it’s not the last word in what sounds good. Take the Focal Aria 936 for example—a completely mediocre speaker if there ever was one. Its unnatural midrange, metallic overtones and smearing of notes is not obvious in the measurement graphs, yet it’s clearly audible, even through Youtube demos.

But don’t take my word for it, go have a listen to a few high-end systems setup by those who do so by ear. Wait…nevermind, that’s right, no need to go through that trouble because you have good ol’ Floyd Toole to tell you what to like.

I'm nothing compared to some people on this forum but I've wasted at least 20K in this hobby, probably more, and you absolutely do not get what you pay for most of the time.