Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

[lordvader]

I think it's only you making this assertion? The argument is about claims that these DAC's sound different from others.

But aren't the similar claims made in relation to a Topping D90SE vs a D50, for example?

 

[voodooless]

But aren't the similar claims made in relation to a Topping D90SE vs a D50, for example?

Sure, there are all kinds of claims out there about all kinds of magic properties of DAC's. What of it?

 

[Killingbeans]

But aren't the similar claims made in relation to a Topping D90SE vs a D50, for example?

Indeed. Sky high SINAD numbers are great fuel for placebo effects.

 

[lordvader]

Sure, there are all kinds of claims out there about all kinds of magic properties of DAC's. What of it?

Maybe (maybe), it feels like there are double standards around here sometimes?
If you talk about "magic properties" of a DAC or AMP that measures significantly well, that's "ok", but if they're in reference to R2R dacs, or class-a amps, it can get quite heated.

 

[voodooless]

Maybe (maybe), it feels like there are double standards around here sometimes?
If you talk about "magic properties" of a DAC or AMP that measures significantly well, that's "ok", but if they're in reference to R2R dacs, or class-a amps, it can get quite heated.

Don't think so. Claimed magic differences between D50 and D90SE should be dealt with the same scrutiny as to the R2R DAC's.

 

[Killingbeans]

Maybe (maybe), it feels like there are double standards around here sometimes?

Sometimes people are too tired to point out the obvious, and way too tired to deal with the ensuing drama. I think people become more vigorous when the talk includes "exotic" gear. It's more fun to poke at the "grandmasters of illusion". But I think most users in here are well aware of the fact that fancy SINAD numbers can mess with your head. Part of identifying as an "objectivist" is knowing that you can't have it both ways.

If you talk about "magic properties" of a DAC or AMP that measures significantly well, that's "ok", but if they're in reference to R2R dacs, or class-a amps, it can get quite heated.

Most of the time when a user gets enthralled by one of the SINAD champions, that person also mentions that it's all probably just in his/her head. That takes off most of the pressure. And if it's being pointed out to them by other users, they usually accept it gracefully.

When the discussion revolves around the "darlings" of poetry reviews, people often have a much harder time letting go of the idea of magic, and it has a higher risk of becoming a braindead gridlock.

 

[Maki]

has there been that many blind test done? it definitly requires more time and proper setup, organizing. measurement are important and love them as a reference as to what to expect for sure, but dont believe they are be all end all, i wish anyone of you lived nearby here and we could do real blind test (in quebec, canada). i understand the psychological involvement, even when your tipsy, high, sober, relaxed, depressed, happy, anxious, tired, etc.. you will perceive sound differently. which is why measurement are an excellent common ground and reference for said component.

having said that, i mean there cant be that many crazy people comparing dacs and different sound, espiecially when there is a lot of common ground between different people and audio equipment(referring to real people, not paid reviews etc).

also, going with your argument that of "confirmation bias", whos to say that your way of thinkin and confidence of that thinkin indirectly forces your brain to not hear a difference between components, even though there is?

I have done an informal blind test. The results were that I gave up halfway through because listening to the same track over and over again is no fun, and the differences were imperceptible. It's funny how people can't hear or don't care about the myriad of flaws with their headphones' frequency response which are universally crappy yet claim to be able to hear the differences between dacs... yeah not sure about that one cuh

 

[KSTR]

I have done an informal blind test. The results were that I gave up halfway through because listening to the same track over and over again is no fun, and the differences were imperceptible.

The moment you throw the towel getting pissed off by the laboratory rat emotions you know the test design has gone wrong. You only can skip the long testing and training period when you have gross differences and you find a music track that specifically highlights it. Then one usually can run a 10/10 ABX easily right away with no preparation, concentrating on the snippet where felt the difference is largest. With small differences it is much harder to find a highlighting snippet and that takes training and patience and the more important it is that there is no test stress. Proper blind tests make take days to weeks all in all.

 

[Maki]

The moment you throw the towel getting pissed off by the laboratory rat emotions you know the test design has gone wrong. You only can skip the long testing and training period when you have gross differences and you find a music track that specifically highlights it. Then one usually can run a 10/10 ABX easily right away with no preparation, concentrating on the snippet where felt the difference is largest. With small differences it is much harder to find a highlighting snippet and that takes training and patience and the more important it is that there is no test stress. Proper blind tests make take days to weeks all in all.

I just realized my time is better spent finding and correcting small imperfections in my headphone's frequency response as that is orders of magnitude more important to sound quality than whatever my source is doing.

 

[KSTR]

I just realized my time is better spent finding and correcting small imperfections in my headphone's frequency response as that is orders of magnitude more important to sound quality than whatever my source is doing.

Absolutely. First things first.

 

[helom]

Yes, I got bored and stopped it. Usually when the performance has temperature dependency, it is obvious out of the gate.

Hmmm…. Today I realized that my Ares II becomes quite a lot quieter following a warm up period. Upon startup, with my LA4 preamp at -12db, I was getting audible hiss with my ears a few inches from the tweeters of my 88db sensitive Paradigm Premier 700Fs. After about a half hour of warm up, I turned the volume up to “+2db” on the LA4 (these speakers are quite loud at -13db on average) and placed my ear right up to the tweeters—there was zero hiss, absolutely zero.

My room is quiet enough to hear a mouse fart so no anomalies going on there.

 

[linger63]

Hmmm…. Today I realized that my Ares II becomes quite a lot quieter following a warm up period. Upon startup, with my LA4 preamp at -12db, I was getting audible hiss with my ears a few inches from the tweeters of my 88db sensitive Paradigm Premier 700Fs. After about a half hour of warm up, I turned the volume up to “+2db” on the LA4 (these speakers are quite loud at -13db on average) and placed my ear right up to the tweeters—there was zero hiss, absolutely zero.

My room is quiet enough to hear a mouse fart so no anomalies going on there.

Maybe hiss was from LA4 or power amp until they warmed up!!!!!

 

[helom]

Maybe hiss was from LA4 or power amp until they warmed up!!!!!

LA4 and AHB2? Doubtful.

 

[bravomail]

so those youtube subjectivists seem to like Denafrips. I wonder why? Probably hear those harmonics for added "musicality"?

 

[Veri]

so those youtube subjectivists seem to like Denafrips. I wonder why? Probably hear those harmonics for added "musicality"?

It's a nice-looking, expensive DAC. Bias does a lot. Also, GoldenSound on his blog measured some funky DSP so for all we know, the sound is rounded off enough for there to be an actual change in resolution.

 

[Wegi76]

Hi, and sorry if the question is stupid...

The Ares II gets very positive/enthusiastic reviews, like this one from the "cheapaudioman" and I wonder if there is some truth to it.

Let`s say you can't avoid another AD/DA conversion later in the chain... Will some fancy DAC like the ARES II make any sense at all then? In my case it`s the active speakers that will route any incoming signal through their internal DSP programm anyways. (There is no "pure" mode or something like that to bypass the DSP)

So: Will some expansie DAC make sense here in such scenarios? I assume it does not...right?

 

[ta240]

But aren't the similar claims made in relation to a Topping D90SE vs a D50, for example?

Some people like the warm fuzzy feeling they get from knowing their DAC has crazy high SINAD numbers and some people like the warm fuzzy feeling they get from knowing their DAC works differently and people they like online endorse it.

Hasn't this site shown that if you are paying much over $100 you are doing so for differences you can't hear either imaginary or real?

 

[Killingbeans]

The Ares II gets very positive/enthusiastic reviews, like this one from the "cheapaudioman" and I wonder if there is some truth to it.

Judging by the measurements on the first page of this thread, it's highly unlikely that this DAC will add anything audible to the output.

Many audiophiles love the idea of R2R DACs. They see this technology as more "analogue" than delta-sigma, even though it's not. It stirs their imagination and lets their expectation bias run wild.

Will some fancy DAC like the ARES II make any sense at all then?

Fancy DACs do generally not make sense. Unless you like the fact that they are fancy, or they have a combination of features that you are willing to pay extra for. Personally I wouldn't worry about missing out on sound quality. There are far more pressing issues than DACs.

 

[Wegi76]

Thanks for your input.

or they have a combination of features that you are willing to pay extra for.

Featurewise the ARES DAC is not interesting to me at all. What I`m curious about are statements like "it adds air and space to the music" (quote from the mentioned youtube review at minute 5:50 roughly) It`s more out of curiosity to verify these claims this with my own ears.

I can`t imagine why someone would say such things without actually having experienced them and really believing it. To me the guy does not appear to be a unhonest person.

But I have both a MiniDSP SHD for room correction in my chain as well as the monitors with their internal DSP that cannot be bypassed as mentioned. For sure I would never ever kick out the MiniDSP because this was be far the best change to improve the sound in my very imperfect room.

 

[billyjoebob]

Some people like the warm fuzzy feeling they get from knowing their DAC has crazy high SINAD numbers and some people like the warm fuzzy feeling they get from knowing their DAC works differently and people they like online endorse it.

Hasn't this site shown that if you are paying much over $100 you are doing so for differences you can't hear either imaginary or real?

Pardon my ignorance, but are you saying that all you will ever need to spend on a DAC is $100.