roderickvd
Member
Latencies of up to 200 ms have been reported. That’s a decent-sized buffer too large to account for clock mismatch.
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Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
It’s on Steve Hoffman. The cd that you’re playing practically skips a beat every now and then.
As I understand it’s happening when playing cd’s with digital out connected to the DAC, no matter the interface. Multiple users indeed had this problem.
Alvin is active there too, he blames it on the way the cd players have implemented their digital out. I’m not technical at all so I don’t know the details.
KSTR
Major Contributor
There can only be one clock master in an audio system. When a CD player is connected via SPDIF it is the clock master. The DAC either has to sync its clock to that signal or properly resample the signal to its internal clock rate, even when it is the same nominal frequency. No idea how the DenaFrips handles this (or not, see below).
If otherwise a DAC design can be considered fundamentally broken, the only way to keep up playback is to drop or repeat one sample occasionally (often done rigt in the SPDIF reciever chips) -- that would be the micro-skipping... which normally is not audible when it happens only a few times per second or less.
The CD players have nothing to do with it.
If otherwise a DAC design can be considered fundamentally broken, the only way to keep up playback is to drop or repeat one sample occasionally (often done rigt in the SPDIF reciever chips) -- that would be the micro-skipping... which normally is not audible when it happens only a few times per second or less.
The CD players have nothing to do with it.
Haruko
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Although not measurable I always listen to D90LE in 384khz mode instead of bit perfect 44.1 ... This is something I found myself without evidence or anyone else input that 384 sounds more spacious and more palatable on busy tracks (especially downmixes from surround) whereas 44 sounds more "sharp" but claustrophobic. There is no evidence behind this maybe someone is feeling the same however listening to music like this makes ME happy. I know I would rather listen to device that makes no apparent difference than say apple dongle, than something that is colouring the sound. Peace of mind makes difference to the sound the same way as listening to the music drunk or high and you can't measure it as it's happening in ADC chip right behind the spiral in your ear
This has an FPGA for SPDIF:
"PROPRIETARY SPDIF DIGITAL AUDIO RECEIVER The SPDIF Coaxial, Optical, input support up to 24bit/192kHz digital audio format. The ARES abandon the use of Digital Audio Receiver chip. The digital data is decoded by the on-board FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array), signal path is shortened and eliminated the undesirable coloration."
Also, Denafrips says this on their site about their FIFO Buffer tech..
FIFO Buffer & Reclocking Latency
DENAFRIPS DDC/DAC uses Adaptive FIFO Buffer, and Reclocking. These techniques yield excellent jitter rejection, however, the variable latency is inevitable.
The latency may have an effect to video/audio lip sync, commonly known as lip-sync. If you plan to use DDC/DAC mainly for gaming/video streaming, it may not be suitable. If you use the DDC/DAC purely for stereo music listening, it would work perfectly. Some TVs come with a feature to adjust the lip sync delay. Example: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00026069 If the TV comes with such a setting, it will be a good mitigating option to correct the lip sync for TV/movies. If you use USB input directly to the DAC, the latency is minimal, and the lip sync should not appear on USB input.
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Killingbeans
Major Contributor
I'd love to know what kind of "coloration" Denafrips believes a normal receiver chip is plagued by. A few nanoseconds less lag/delay, sure (assuming the FPGA implementation actually beats custom silicon... seems like a tall order). But "coloration"?
Sounds like the marketing department is trying to take advantage of the general ignorance towards analog vs. digital.
maty
Major Contributor
After listening to Jacques Loussier - Little Fuge in G Minor I verify, once again, that they do not all sound the same. J-River MC 29.0.81. Kernel Streaming. KEF Q100 coaxial loudspeakers, modded by me (box, filters... and front bass-reflex closed).
The best sound of the R2R is Denafrips Ares II (curiously it is the cheapest of that brand)
Of the others, RME ADI-2
Denafrips Ares II conveys more emotion.
The best sound of the R2R is Denafrips Ares II (curiously it is the cheapest of that brand)
Of the others, RME ADI-2
Denafrips Ares II conveys more emotion.
maty
Major Contributor
Samples and measurements: https://alpha-audio.net/
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Every time I wonder if anything sillier can be put in writing than some of the things I've read here, or whether we've reached Peak Nonsense, you always restore my faith. My hat's off to you.
maty
Major Contributor
Emotion: you move your feet when listening to music.
Oh, is that what it is? Huh.
Veri
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maty
Major Contributor
So..... PRaT?
Sometimes, listening to some superb recordings of classical music I feel the need to get up and virtually conduct the orchestra <- that emotion
Some examples, but the YouTube sound...
Mravinsky, Leningrader P - Tchaikovsky: Symphonies Nos 4, 5 & 6 "Pathetique" (1961), Vinyl x3, Analogphonic 2017, Germany
Wilhem Furtwängler, Philharmonia Orchestra - Beethoven - Symphony No. 9 (1954), CD, Tahra, France
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How do you separate the emotion from the source vs the emotion you perceive from the DAC?
maty
Major Contributor
Download the samples and listen to the same: Jacques Loussier - Little Fuge in G Minor
www.audiosciencereview.com
RME ADI-2 sounds very well but only the cheap Denafrips Ares II makes me follow the rhythm with my feet.
Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review
Latencies of up to 200 ms have been reported. That’s a decent-sized buffer too large to account for clock mismatch.
www.audiosciencereview.com
RME ADI-2 sounds very well but only the cheap Denafrips Ares II makes me follow the rhythm with my feet.
Denafrips Ares II perform 16 times oversampling to generate a pseudo First-Order Hold instead the more common Zero-Order Hold used by most ladder DACs. Maybe that is source of the delay.Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review
Latencies of up to 200 ms have been reported. That’s a decent-sized buffer too large to account for clock mismatch.
What is that supposed to mean?
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The Ares II is their cheapest DAC- user Maty found it was the only one of their lineup that got his toe tapping.
Make of that what you will.
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