Denafrips Ares II - is it really worth it?

[SIY]

If the output levels from a DAC differs then the gain needed by the amplifier to drive speakers changes, so its not a one dimensional issue.

How many dimensions is it? Show your work.

 

[Henry53]

How many dimensions is it? Show your work.

Well its at least 2 dimensional, the DAC output and the amplifier gain are both variables.

 

[Doodski]

Well its at least 2 dimensional, the DAC output and the amplifier gain are both variables.

The DAC's operation denotes that when converting all those zeros and ones to analogue that the DAC will output will be the same as another decent DAC. The buffers/OP amps that are after the DAC IC will be transparent to your ears as OP amps are very good now. There's nothing more in the signal path because after the buffers it's the output terminals at the DAC. The output voltages will vary from unit to unit and we know you know how to level match or we think you do. Level matching can be done properly when using a oscilloscope or a AC volts meter and both metering methods will use a sine wave to ensure the voltage is consistent across all tests and not varying like a musical waveform does.

 

[Mart68]

versus the khadas it seems to sound like a discernable step up

i like the 12v trigger and remote and bluetooth such that it is probably okay even if it doesn't produce better analogue - but i am an attentive listener even before the change, and there are frequencies coming forward that i hadn't been aware of previously, and the bass response seems to somehow make the notes very distinct

might be the filters (that i can't find in the menu) - or am i deluded by investment and expectation?

You just made a change so you are now actively listening for differences and listening more attentively. So you notice things that were in fact there all along.

Not saying that is the explanation but it's very likely. If you can hear the difference in filters you've got better hearing than me

 

[scruffy1]

active listening was my default a lot of the time previous to the upgrade too - it is not uncommon for me to simply sit and listen to music, without any other distractions, and often to recordings i have admired in digital format for 25 years

the amp and speakers are a decade in service, so those components are not a recent variable

been a keen "sit and just listen" type since my first stereo (hitachi tape deck with a dbx and luxman L2 feeding epicure 10 speakers, circa 1979); my ears aren't quite that good these days, but my prior training in listening intently is 40+ years' worth

it sounds "different", just like the internal dac in the nad d3020 sounded distinctly different to the khadas feeding analogue into the same amplifier - most obvious on a few songs that are my "go to" standards for auditioning equipment - the frequencies sound like there is some equaliser adjustment, if that's possible, and the peaks of vocals sound unpleasantly harsh with the nad versus the topping

distortion ? probably - i have no way to measure that

as for filters... i can't locate the controls to tell

 

[SIY]

it sounds "different", just like the internal dac in the nad d3020 sounded distinctly different to the khadas feeding analogue into the same amplifier - most obvious on a few songs that are my "go to" standards for auditioning equipment -

There's several clues.

 

[scruffy1]

humour me and spell it out please

 

[SIY]

humour me and spell it out please

Peeking and level-matching. Basic controls are basic.

 

[scruffy1]

so without sophisticated equipment to measure these, i will have to be ignorant i expect

but i am happy it sounds better, so there's that

 

[SIY]

so without sophisticated equipment to measure these, i will have to be ignorant i expect

but i am happy it sounds better, so there's that

You don't need "sophisticated equipment" to perform some basic controlled listening. I think Amir has some videos on this.

 

[Angsty]

Should?

Unless something is broken, then it won’t be “decent”.

I’d go further to say that DACs > 100 dB SINAD, flat FR and good linearity (i.e. “decent”) will not sound different when level matched. The rest of the sound chain will not produce reliably audible differences at those DAC performance levels, even if the differences can be measured.

It’s possible that you can get “threshold of hearing” differences as low as -120 dB for some portions of the audible frequency range in laboratory conditions, but those are exceptionally difficult to recreate in real world conditions.

 

[scruffy1]

as i am quizzing elsewhere, would a better power supply for the dac used bias the quality, as i understand that transient peaks may be compromised if there isn't enough "reserve"

does that even apply to dacs?

 

[Mart68]

as i am quizzing elsewhere, would a better power supply for the dac used bias the quality, as i understand that transient peaks may be compromised if there isn't enough "reserve"

does that even apply to dacs?

No.

 

[raif71]

Comparing DACs and a fixed amp, supposedly one DAC output impedance ratio to the amp's input impedance is lower than 1:8 ratio compared with another DAC that meet the 1:8 ratio, with a single tone and level matched and short music clips, audio differences may not be detected but for practical/active listening... the DAC with the lower ratio may suffer in the sound department hence differences between DACs. Possible, right ?

 

[scruffy1]

No.

but presumably a more quality power supply can influence performance ?


thanks raif71, for suggesting there may be some plausible possibility for hearing a difference

if i am no closer to an explanation (apart from bias), does the presence of the famous ess hump in the khadas readings, and its absence in the e70 readings make diddlysquat difference to what i might hear ?

i appreciate the experienced responses of the forum members as i have no formal training in the electronics involved, but i am listening

 

[raif71]

thanks raif71, for suggesting there may be some plausible possibility for hearing a difference

if i am no closer to an explanation (apart from bias), does the presence of the famous ess hump in the khadas readings, and its absence in the e70 readings make diddlysquat difference to what i might hear ?

i appreciate the experienced responses of the forum members as i have no formal training in the electronics involved, but i am listening

Yes, I have experienced sound differences between DACs having multiple amps and dacs in my collection. From the forums one can infer that amp's input impedance and DAC output impedance do affect the sound between DACs and it is quite important to have them meet the 1:8 ratio or higher or in other words the amp and DAC pairing need to "match".

 

[Henry53]

No.

Of course a terrible power supply will affect sound as will effect the way a component works. Can a 'better' power supply improve sound? Have a listen.

 

[Trell]

Of course a terrible power supply will affect sound as will effect the way a component works. Can a 'better' power supply improve sound? Have a listen.

What do you mean by "a terrible power supply"? In general the power supply that you get when buying a DAC will work just fine, unless it's broken.

 

[DSJR]

Of course a terrible power supply will affect sound as will effect the way a component works. Can a 'better' power supply improve sound? Have a listen.

If the regulation and basic filtering in the power supply and dac supply input is crude enough, then slapping in a humongous supply may make a difference, but in modern well isolated dacs which are tested and proven to be basically immune from the supply these days, it should make no difference at all as long as you don't know which supply is used.

 

[BDWoody]

so without sophisticated equipment to measure these, i will have to be ignorant i expect

but i am happy it sounds better, so there's that

It's more that it requires an interest in doing it. I suppose a multimeter could be considered sophisticated equipment, but maybe you are overcomplicating the process.

Other than being a bit of a pain to put together a test with appropriate rigor it doesn't require specialized training or fancy equipment.

Without that excuse, are you interested in actually testing yourself now?