Denafrips Ares II - is it really worth it?

[Palladium]

I always wonder & marvel how such profoundly technical rational scientifical objective minds claim that 99% of DACs sound the same, then some, many of them pay loads of money for the expensive ones...

I also always wonder & marvel how such profoundly subjective minds keep inventing strawmen and shifting burden of proofs.

 

[Veri]

I always wonder & marvel how such profoundly technical rational scientifical objective minds claim that 99% of DACs sound the same, then some, many of them pay loads of money for the expensive ones...

More connections. Pride of ownership/latest DAC chip (I mean chips from 20 years ago weren't even that bad). Aesthetics. Or of course features, ADI-2 DAC can obviously do a lot more than most others, as an example.

 

[Overseas]

How weird it's always the more expensive DAC always sounds better sighted and then somehow not when done blind.

I also always wonder & marvel how such profoundly subjective minds keep inventing strawmen and shifting burden of proofs.

Complex situation. Proofs have two ends. I know.

 

[Overseas]

More connections. Pride of ownership/latest DAC chip (I mean chips from 20 years ago weren't even that bad). Aesthetics. Or of course features, ADI-2 DAC can obviously do a lot more than most others, as an example.

You picked an example, it is not proof for all cases.

I value measurements. Then I choose the sound. Still, one camp is furious against the other. Funny, it is the 'rational' camp, hahahaaa.

 

[BDWoody]

I always wonder & marvel how such profoundly technical rational scientifical objective minds claim that 99% of DACs sound the same, then some, many of them pay loads of money for the expensive ones...

What is there to marvel about? Why are people not allowed to make informed choices?

Not buying the cheapest box doesn't mean people believe they are buying better sound.

 

[Palladium]

Complex situation. Proofs have two ends. I know

I can see why it can be complex for minds lacking basic understanding at logic.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

I wish we cold measure that DAC "weight", maybe amir should buy some kind of audiophile scale..?

The steel chassis and linear transformer does make the Ares II heavier that many other DACs, anyway.

 

[raif71]

+1 vote for the Denafrips Ares 2 is definitely great bang for the buck. My DAC progression: Schiit Bifrost(for 1 year) Schiit Bifrost + Uber (for 3 years), Schiit Bifrost 2 (for 2 weeks), Denafrips Ares 2 (1+ years). I can't think of anything missing with the Ares 2 "sound" in my setup. It is complete to my ears. IMO, there is an incredible amount of snake oil and subjectivity in the audiophile business, which is revealing about psychoacoustics... For me the bottom line is you know you have found the audio setup you're looking for when you forget about the components (they accumulate dust!) and enjoy the music.
My setup:
Mac Mini ->Toslink->Denafrips Ares II->Creek Audio Destiny->Wharfedale Diamond 10.7

Hi, may I know why you spent only 2 weeks with the Bifrost 2 ?

 

[Henry53]

Here's my take. The Denafrips has a THD+N of 0.0006% vs a $65 DAC which has a THD+N of 0.005%(say). If your ears have the sensitivity to feel that difference then by all means go for the denafrips. Definitely try it in your system/room and see if it makes a difference.

As no one can hear the difference between 0.00006% and 0.005% THD then on that measure alone buy the cheapest if you happy with how it sounds. Unfortunately DAC's do actually sound different in differing systems.

 

[Doodski]

Unfortunately DAC's do actually sound different in differing systems.

How different is the question? Any decent DAC nowadays should pass the test and you won't hear a difference between them.

 

[Henry53]

How different is the question? Any decent DAC nowadays should pass the test and you won't hear a difference between them.

They have different output volumes for a start? That certainly affects how they sound.

 

[Snoopy]

They have different output volumes for a start? That certainly affects how they sound.

That's why you listen volume matched.
If one DAC outputs 3.7 volt and the next DAC 5.2 volt it's no surprise that they sound different

 

[Henry53]

That's why you listen volume matched.
If one DAC outputs 3.7 volt and the next DAC 5.2 volt it's no surprise that they sound different

In the case of Denafrips they also provide balanced outputs, these measure differently to unbalanced. Amplifiers however measure differently at different gain settings.

 

[VintageFlanker]

That's why you listen volume matched.
If one DAC outputs 3.7 volt and the next DAC 5.2 volt it's no surprise that they sound different

Compare* volume matched. This would be only useful for an AB listening and to isolate this factor.
In real life use, an higher output voltage is indeed an advantage, especially when driving power amps or active speakers.

 

[Doodski]

They have different output volumes for a start? That certainly affects how they sound.

I hoped you would take it as a given that I am aware of that and get to the meat and potatoes of the matter. Matched levels tests will result in no discernable difference between any decent quality DAC offerings today.

 

[scruffy1]

seeing i showed my ignorance earlier in this thread, in considering the denafrips, and was soundly discouraged (boom tish) from believing subjective assessment is basis for a system of stable scientific measurement (apologies to monty python)

anyway, i ultimately upgraded my khadas tone 1 to a topping e70 and confidently state i like it even more than the khadas

it demonstrably measures better per amir's investigations, and the ess "hump" is not present


i lack the equipment and leads and enthusiasm to try blind testing; it may all be psychoacoustic trickery, but it "sounds" better

 

[Angsty]

it demonstrably measures better per amir's investigations, and the ess "hump" is not present

I know the ESS hump often exists, but at the levels in which it shows up, I’d assert it is an inaudible difference between DACs outside of the test lab.

 

[scruffy1]

versus the khadas it seems to sound like a discernable step up

i like the 12v trigger and remote and bluetooth such that it is probably okay even if it doesn't produce better analogue - but i am an attentive listener even before the change, and there are frequencies coming forward that i hadn't been aware of previously, and the bass response seems to somehow make the notes very distinct

might be the filters (that i can't find in the menu) - or am i deluded by investment and expectation?

 

[Henry53]

I hoped you would take it as a given that I am aware of that and get to the meat and potatoes of the matter. Matched levels tests will result in no discernable difference between any decent quality DAC offerings today.

If the output levels from a DAC differs then the gain needed by the amplifier to drive speakers changes, so its not a one dimensional issue.

 

[Henry53]

How different is the question? Any decent DAC nowadays should pass the test and you won't hear a difference between them.

Should?