Denafrips Ares II - is it really worth it?

[dogonelder]

Hi!
My current setup:
Speakers: Rega RX5
TT: Rega RP3
Cart: Denon DL-110 MC
Amp: Rogue Sphinx V1 Hybrid Integrated (in-built phono)
Streamer: Chromecast Audio (CCA)

Listening Habit: 20% Vinyl 80% Streaming

I happen to be Electronics Engineer by trade but don't work on Audio much (sadly). Always felt DACs were important but not overly. After reading all the conversations about DACs and watching a ton of YouTube, I was still not convinced that I need a DAC. But then I recalled when I was at the store from where I bought my Rogue Sphinx, the owner played music on his MacBook through a Luxman DAC, it sounded fantastic. I had an Onkyo CD player then and I mentioned to him that I can always play through it's USB input if I wanted a better DAC than CCA. He was an old man, who was unconvinced, he said you're gonna need a better DAC than Onkyo.

I bought an SMSL SU-8 from MassDrop because it has great test results on this very website. Fed it over optical through CCA. The DAC sucked, the sound was flat, there was no discerning quality. The remote never worked, probably because MassDrop sells B-parts. I sold it off.

Now, I am considering maybe I can buy a Bluesound Node or Cambridge CXN V2. I don't know if the extra $500 for CXN V2 is worth it. Then I hear all the fuss around the Denafrips Ares II. It's R2R, the old school way (well for me actually school, where we built a R2R on breadboard in the lab). Also that the Denafrips sounds like vinyl. The ESS Sabre or Wolfson DACs have the soundstage. So is it like if you want wide soundstage, you need CXN or similar, if you want warmth, Denafrips?

I am looking for people's experience with it. For me $1000 seems a stretch, especially considering it's from a Chinese company with likely no returns, support etc. I will still be feeding it through CCA optical. Otherwise, I can just go for CXN.

Thanks!

 

[dc655321]

A DAC’s job is to make a digital signal into an analog voltage. That’s it. No soundstage, warmth, or other such BS.

Use your EE training.

 

[Zensō]

Hi!
My current setup:
Speakers: Rega RX5
TT: Rega RP3
Cart: Denon DL-110 MC
Amp: Rogue Sphinx V1 Hybrid Integrated (in-built phono)
Streamer: Chromecast Audio (CCA)

Listening Habit: 20% Vinyl 80% Streaming

I happen to be Electronics Engineer by trade but don't work on Audio much (sadly). Always felt DACs were important but not overly. After reading all the conversations about DACs and watching a ton of YouTube, I was still not convinced that I need a DAC. But then I recalled when I was at the store from where I bought my Rogue Sphinx, the owner played music on his MacBook through a Luxman DAC, it sounded fantastic. I had an Onkyo CD player then and I mentioned to him that I can always play through it's USB input if I wanted a better DAC than CCA. He was an old man, who was unconvinced, he said you're gonna need a better DAC than Onkyo.

I bought an SMSL SU-8 from MassDrop because it has great test results on this very website. Fed it over optical through CCA. The DAC sucked, the sound was flat, there was no discerning quality. The remote never worked, probably because MassDrop sells B-parts. I sold it off.

Now, I am considering maybe I can buy a Bluesound Node or Cambridge CXN V2. I don't know if the extra $500 for CXN V2 is worth it. Then I hear all the fuss around the Denafrips Ares II. It's R2R, the old school way (well for me actually school, where we built a R2R on breadboard in the lab). Also that the Denafrips sounds like vinyl. The ESS Sabre or Wolfson DACs have the soundstage. So is it like if you want wide soundstage, you need CXN or similar, if you want warmth, Denafrips?

I am looking for people's experience with it. For me $1000 seems a stretch, especially considering it's from a Chinese company with likely no returns, support etc. I will still be feeding it through CCA optical. Otherwise, I can just go for CXN.

Thanks!

Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

This is a review and measurements of the Denafrips ARES II USB DSD DAC based on R2R architecture. It is on kind loan from a member. I think it costs US $680 so not too high for a custom DAC. The overall look of the ARES II is rather plain: The LED indicators are quite tiny so standing top...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dogonelder]

A DAC’s job is to make a digital signal into an analog voltage. That’s it. No soundstage, warmth, or other such BS.

Use your EE training.

You are spot on. However, almost all expensive DACs are rather pre-Amps with filters and DSPs. Specifically, RME ADI-2 has an EQ even.

For my CCA, I was able to reduce the noise floor by switching to a cleaner USB power supply from iFi, it was pretty significant, noticeable improvement.

I understand DAC's function is straightforward, but quality electronics is hard to get right.

 

[dc655321]

but quality electronics is hard to get right.

Not DACs at audio bandwidths.
Take a look at the performance of a $10 Apple dongle or your own CCA. Both are measured in this site.

 

[Berlin]

I had the Denafrips Ares II in my systems and I could not hear any difference as compared to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, Topping D10, Allo Boss2 player and the DAC in the Hegel H120...

 

[Snoopy]

I had the Denafrips Ares II in my systems and I could not hear any difference as compared to the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, Topping D10, Allo Boss2 player and the DAC in the Hegel H120...

That's probably the case for most people. The rest likes to imagine a difference to justify the purchase.

Or maybe it's the case that they need to have something that's different from what the majority is able to afford.?

After comparing a burr brown DAC, 2 different ESS dacs, a dual Wolfson DAC and a new rohm DAC (smsl d300) I can only say there is next to no difference.

And the difference is probably from filters and upsampling.

 

[Berlin]

That's probably the case for most people. The rest likes to imagine a difference to justify the purchase.

At first I really thought it sounded better than the other DACs. But after some A/B tests, I could no longer tell any difference. By the way, I bought the Denafrips because of a YouTube video. The reviewer described the Denafrips so enthusiastically that I really wanted to try it out. Well, the result was rather sobering....

 

[BDWoody]

I understand DAC's function is straightforward, but quality electronics is hard to get right.

That's the great thing about electronics...

It isn't that hard to measure and characterize the component to see if they got it right or not.

 

[Katji]

A DAC’s job is to make a digital signal into an analog voltage. That’s it. No soundstage, warmth, or other such BS.

Accurately, minimal noise/distortion.

Not "warm" or whatever.
[...How would DAC filters give that impression[?] ("Rhetorical." I don't really care, whether it might or not; I'm not into impressions like that.)

Then I hear all the fuss around the Denafrips Ares II. It's R2R, the old school way (well for me actually school, where we built a R2R on breadboard in the lab). Also that the Denafrips sounds like vinyl. The ESS Sabre or Wolfson DACs have the soundstage. So is it like if you want wide soundstage, you need CXN or similar, if you want warmth, Denafrips?

Internet audiophile mythology AKA social psychology stuff.
Old-school and digital is not a good idea.
(How would it be, logically?...The best you could do is suggesting that the only reason that most/99% of DACs are delta-sigma is that the manufacturing cost of R2R is so much more. ...Show me the data, evidence.)

The reviewer described the Denafrips so enthusiastically that I really wanted to try it out. Well, the result was rather sobering....

The result can be even more sobering when you realise what's actually going on with audiophile reviewers and forums, iow "community," "community marketing."

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I owned one, it overlapped with my D90 by over a month, so plenty of time to compare the 2.

In terms of all the phrases bandied about regarding the Ares (and R2R in general), like airy, increased soundstage, more analogue and like vinyl my very scientific findings were: bollocks.

There was very, very little perceivable difference between the two. I thought I heard a little more top end detail from the D90, but that was my subjective view so treat it as such.

The only differentiating factor was that I thought things sounded a bit varnished through the Ares. Like an odd sheen, everything sounded a bit artificial. Whereas the D90 sounds of nothing whatsoever. I've since seen a video somewhere showing that NOS is broken on the Ares, the supposed sheen might have been that. Again, subjective.

All that said, with the minimal difference in sound, the better connectivity and ability to use it as a pre meant the D90 stayed. I didn't think I'd need the pre function at that point, I now use it every day.


EDIT: here is said video

If you skip past the first 25 minutes of 'warm signature', 'spacious' and 'smooth sounding' nonsense the remainder of the video is very interesting.

 

[Berlin]

EDIT: here is said video

I wonder if the reviewer would come to the same conclusion in a blind test....

 

[MaxBuck]

EDIT: here is said video

If you skip past the first 25 minutes of 'warm signature', 'spacious' and 'smooth sounding' nonsense the remainder of the video is very interesting.

If anyone thought this Goldensound dude didn't have his head up his butt, notice he's using Audioquest cables. The tube components are also a red flag.

Since he was the original detractor of MQA, I'm increasingly suspicious that MQA might in fact be a pretty good idea.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

Since he was the original detractor of MQA, I'm increasingly suspicious that MQA might in fact be a pretty good idea.

Ha! It's bizarre, isn't it. The NOS section could suggest he's got his head screwed on, but the 25 minutes of nonsense before it suggests he needs to give his head a proper wobble.

 

[pinpoint_oxford]

I am looking for people's experience with it. For me $1000 seems a stretch, especially considering it's from a Chinese company with likely no returns, support etc. I will still be feeding it through CCA optical. Otherwise, I can just go for CXN.

I have this DAC and it replaced a Topping d10s (which I still like and use in my office now). I really like it and do think it sounds better. I also like it from a build quality and engineering perspective.

I should also note that while Denafrips is Chinese all of the distribution and support is handled from Vinshine Audio in Singapore and they are very helpful, communicate in English very well, and you should not worry about dealing with them, this isn't aliexpress.

 

[Snoopy]

All these audiophile guys are nutjobs.

 

[Cisco150]

If anyone thought this Goldensound dude didn't have his head up his butt, notice he's using Audioquest cables. The tube components are also a red flag.

Since he was the original detractor of MQA, I'm increasingly suspicious that MQA might in fact be a pretty good idea.

Lmfao

 

[Zensō]

Since he was the original detractor of MQA, I'm increasingly suspicious that MQA might in fact be a pretty good idea.

Just to give credit where credit is due, Archimago pretty much totally debunked MQA back in 2018:

MQA: A Review of controversies, concerns, and cautions

Editor's Note 1: MQA ltd was sent a copy of this article several days prior to the scheduled publication date. The company requested a phone conversation, which took place earlier this week. MQA was encouraged to write a response for inclusion with the article below, but it respectfully decline t...

audiophilestyle.com

 

[dc655321]

Just to give credit where credit is due, Archimago pretty much totally debunked MQA back in 2018:

MQA: A Review of controversies, concerns, and cautions

Editor's Note 1: MQA ltd was sent a copy of this article several days prior to the scheduled publication date. The company requested a phone conversation, which took place earlier this week. MQA was encouraged to write a response for inclusion with the article below, but it respectfully decline t...

audiophilestyle.com

And I think @mansr even before or contemporaneous with @Archimago.

 

[mansr]

And I think @mansr even before or contemporaneous with @Archimago.

We both did our bit.