Defining High-Res Audio ...

[TBone]

... how often I read about sweet violins. Many people seem to think or at least prefer a violin always sound smooth and sweet. Sometimes on some music they are supposed to have bite, and certainly some texture beyond glassy smoothness.

Media (movies esp) all too often portray the violin as smooth & sweet.

And, ummm, very Sexy ...

I don't have many solo violin cds, Lara St. John's debut cd(hdcd) ...

... certainly offers more bite and grit as compared to Hilary Hahn softer and perhaps sweeter sound (imo: a Sony "SBM" sonic character).

 

[Don Hills]

... Sometimes on some music they are supposed to have bite, and certainly some texture beyond glassy smoothness.

I'm a fan of Apocalyptica. Even on their first album, a cello quartet recorded in a chamber music acoustic, their cellos had a definite "I'm sawing your speakers in half" sound to suit the music.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well I said raucous. I did mean that, but not screechy. Screechy is on the player. Maybe it is just those I have run into and how often I read about sweet violins. Many people seem to think or at least prefer a violin always sound smooth and sweet. Sometimes on some music they are supposed to have bite, and certainly some texture beyond glassy smoothness.

That's true of many instruments and many audiophiles, I think. Cymbals come to mind. Brass. Bright, biting electric guitars. You round that stuff off, smooth off the edges, and you lose a lot.

Tim

 

[NorthSky]

Years ago I used one of their cover albums as my avatar:

But this is not my music ↑ genre (not @ all); I only like the picture cover montage.

______

For a violinist without abrasiveness ↓ ; she's more my genre...on multichannel SACD.



It's a click on picture cover ↑ for free music samples.

 

[RayDunzl]

The word raucous associated with violin made me pull out this work by Bartok.

Here's somebody playing part of it in competition:

 

[Blumlein 88]

The word raucous associated with violin made me pull out this work by Bartok.

Here's somebody playing part of it in competition:

Yes, yes, this a very good example. It isn't screechy. Sometimes it is smooth and others has an appropriate edge and roughness to the sound.
I do think the recording is a bit too smooth for reality. I also think they have the channels reversed. Sounds like a left hander just listening.

Here is another from that same competition playing with an orchestra. Perhaps it is of some interest to you.

 

[fas42]

Thanks to Ray and Dennis for posting these clips - I get a buzz from hearing young performers at this level of expertise ...

 

[NorthSky]

The violin is such a beautiful musical instrument; the sounds it makes are very emotional and expressive.
Trying to define it is like trying to define high-res audio.

 

[Thomas savage]

The violin like all instruments of art is a conduit for human expression, though if a robot was to play one that would challenge that definition.

Hi Rez audio is anything above 16/44.1 I think?

 

[RayDunzl]

Electric Violin

Jean Luc Ponty King Kong 1969

though if a robot was to play one

Hi Rez audio is anything above 16/44.1 I think?

It's higher (numerical) resolution.

 

[Thomas savage]

Electric Violin

Jean Luc Ponty King Kong 1969

Intresting as we then cut the link between artist and the listener.. Robot having no 'artistic' intent of its own unless it plays of its own volition then that's even more ... Confusing

So all u need for music and/or artistic conception is an audience not a complicit performer.

 

[amirm]

Ah, that is stupendous. Thanks for posting it. It sounded great even though my laptop speakers!

 

[NorthSky]

But it is a little off topic, no?

It's cool, I like that we're talking about the violin because it's a nice instrument in relation to high-res audio.
I have several CDs with recorded violins on them and they sound awful, screeching and irritating in the distorted highs.
But on the other end I have other violin recordings that sound magnificent. ...CDs and SACDs.

So, high-res audio depends largely on the music quality recording itself. ....Violin, piano, drums, cymbals included.
A full classical orchestra with many violins is not an easy feat to record and to reproduce @ home in our listening rooms.
"Prof." Keith O. Johnson from Reference Recordings does a good job @ it. ... http://www.referencerecordings.com/

* Bonus: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rem...cation-recording/92229-how-record-violin.html
• https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rem...ording/53894-tips-recording-violin-cello.html
• https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rem...-no-warmth-my-classical-violin-recording.html

 

[TBone]

High rez has little meaning, past numeric definition ...

Cymbals come to mind. ... You round that stuff off, smooth off the edges, and you lose a lot.

Esp. hard hit cymbals.

Reference Sweet Jane, Trinity Sessions, Cowboy Junkies (cymbals & sibilant voice) & Patricia Barber's Nardis Cafe Blue (percussion, piano, dbl.bass).

Both orig 16bit recordings, often demo'd as pseudo-high-rez references (sacd/lp/r2reel).

 

[Thomas savage]

High rez has little meaning, past numeric definition ...



Esp. hard hit cymbals.

Reference Sweet Jane, Trinity Sessions, Cowboy Junkies (cymbals & sibilant voice) & Patricia Barber's Nardis Cafe Blue (percussion, piano, dbl.bass).

Both orig 16bit recordings, often demo'd as pseudo-high-rez references (sacd/lp/r2reel).

One hard hit cymbal is not too bad but multi hard hit cymbals also put a lot of demands on ur listening environment.

It can sound like a mess but have nothing to do with the recording or playback chain..also every live gig I have been to, the cymbals when hit With extrem vigor sound a mess so...ironically they are best reproduced at home.

 

[fas42]

But it is a little off topic, no?

It's cool, I like that we're talking about the violin because it's a nice instrument in relation to high-res audio.
I have several CDs with recorded violins on them and they sound awful, screeching and irritating in the distorted highs.

Bob, that's a key comment you made there - you say "distorted highs"; does that mean the recording engineer was so incompetent that he literally mucked up the the take ... or, that the sound of what was captured comes across as being "distorted", on your playback system. If the latter is the case, then this is where I come aboard, in terms of what I do with equipment - it's as good as as seeing a reading of, say 1% distortion from some measuring device, in knowing there's a problem. I sort out the underlying issue, and the "screeching and irritating" is gone - I now have a reading of, putting my finger in the air, 0.001% distortion. This is why I find 'measuring' irrelevant, I get all the data I need from simple listening ...

 

[fas42]

It can sound like a mess but have nothing to do with the recording or playback chain..also every live gig I have been to, the cymbals when hit With extrem vigor sound a mess so...ironically they are best reproduced at home.

Direct acoustic sound ... or what comes through the PA?

 

[Ron Party]

Bob, what an amazing coincidence. I just picked up that Rachel Podger SACD 2 days ago. Were you looking over my shoulder?

 

[NorthSky]

Bob, what an amazing coincidence. I just picked up that Rachel Podger SACD 2 days ago. Were you looking over my shoulder?

Cool, it's a great music recording of beautiful powerful music for the soul and roots of a man and woman.
Ron, it's nice, real nice to see you; happy coincidences happen because we are all aware...we follow the roads to our dreams...all connected together. We are humble and good things happen to humble people.
Post a little bit more, if possible. We all need a dose of diversification in this forest here.
____

* Are ribbon tweeters better @ reproducing high-res sounds from cymbals and triangles and violin strings? Anyone?

 

[NorthSky]

Bob, that's a key comment you made there - you say "distorted highs"; does that mean the recording engineer was so incompetent that he literally mucked up the the take ... or, that the sound of what was captured comes across as being "distorted", on your playback system. If the latter is the case, then this is where I come aboard, in terms of what I do with equipment - it's as good as as seeing a reading of, say 1% distortion from some measuring device, in knowing there's a problem. I sort out the underlying issue, and the "screeching and irritating" is gone - I now have a reading of, putting my finger in the air, 0.001% distortion. This is why I find 'measuring' irrelevant, I get all the data I need from simple listening ...

Frank, I have some violin recordings on CDs that I bought in the mid to late 80s. The sound quality is generally very bad, the violin sound is irritating.
From my research it could be several things: the manufacturing plants, the recording machines used, the way they were transferred from inferior copies, etc.
On the other hand I have more violin recordings from 2000 and up and the violin sounds are smooth and pleasant.
Better plants, better recording techniques, better record labels, better overall care on the entire process.
The violin is very revealing of the recording and of the system. ...Your tweeters, and your amplification. Same with cymbals.

To tame harsh sound I dial the treble control couple notches down. ...And I use cheap interconnects and speaker wires.
But my favorite option is to not play them anymore...forever. That way I don't have to play with the tone controls and switch interconnects and speaker wires.
I found many older CDs lower resolution than my even older LPs.

I think I'm a lucky music explorer. I espoused all mediums extensively since my early youth. I learned many things on my own in the analyzing/processing of sound quality.
We all did, more or less. And all methods to evolve in our personal music/audio journey are good experience.
To me what I like most about high-res audio is the sound quality, in general, on the violins, the cellos, the cymbals, their natural attacks and fading, the drums and the piano notes.
Classical orchestral music is a boon in high-res audio. ...And so is acoustic jazz. ...And classical chamber music. ...And operas and chorals.
I also like Pink Floyd and their pedals. ...And of course organ music...Bach, etc.

To extend the bit death (depth) and sampling rate in digital recordings is to allow a higher audio resolution...equals better sound quality closer to the live performance. ...When all well recorded and reproduced.
Do you also agree with my unfounded and unscientific but experienced listening findings?
Can I be proven right?
Do you have a switch on your laptop that able you to quickly compare low-res with high-res? Well, not on your laptop per se but inside...from a program.
Some apps for your phone will even measure the results.

Frank, how would you define high-res audio? ...HRA