dCS threatens with a 7-figure lawsuit over a review

[Beave]

Look as I stated before, it is fine if you believe you hear no difference, if you believe that "DACS are a solved problem" and if you believe that I cannot hear a difference. (I certainly can and always have). Each of us is happy and neither of us has to denigrate the other. I have been listening to audio and have had systems since the late 60's. What I own now is what sounds good to me. I listened to well over 20 different dacs before I purchased my latest iteration and I purchased it because it sounded excellent to me - better than others I heard.

Not necessarily, Jim. One of the better sounding turntables I have heard is the Kuzma Stabi S for example.In my opinion this outperforms tts often costing 3x to 4x as much. So why did I mention this? To show that there are bargains around if you search for them and know what you are doing. However, once again, this is my opinion.
By the way, I have looked at most of the videos here, (though not all the way through in all cases as they bore me to tears). Also I am well aware of and confident in my own abilities, having been around for a while.

Hmm, my experience has taught me the exact opposite lesson. I was far more confident in my hearing abilities when I was in my 20s. Now that I'm in my 50s, I'm not nearly so confident. One, I'm certain my hearing acuity has worsened (I used to be able to hear 20kHz easily, now I can only hear to about 14kHz). Two, I've done blinded comparisons and learned just how easily my hearing can be fooled by casual (sighted, non-level-matched) listening comparisons.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Also I am well aware of and confident in my own abilities, having been around for a while.

Don’t make any bets

 

[Nuni]

$300 DAC + 100k speaker vs $300 speaker + 100k DAC ! Which system sounds better ??

I presented the same argument on a dcs thread and the dude defending the expensive DAC kept skating around the issue and said that the expensive DAC has "Synergy" which wasn't present in the cheaper DAC's. I asked him will his "Synergy" fix up the issues in a $300 speaker ??

Sorry but I have no idea of the point you are trying to make. I have heard 100k speakers that I do not like, but I could also say what sounds better, a pair of Stenheim 05S E and a $50 dongle or a pair of Stenheim 05 SE and a Playback design dac or a Tambaqui. If you said the former I would seriously have to laugh at you.

 

[Newman]

...it is fine if you believe you hear no difference, if you believe that "DACS are a solved problem" and if you believe that I cannot hear a difference. (I certainly can and always have). ...I listened to well over 20 different dacs before I purchased my latest iteration and I purchased it because it sounded excellent to me - better than others I heard.

...One of the better sounding turntables I have heard is the Kuzma Stabi S for example. In my opinion this outperforms tts often costing 3x to 4x as much...
...I am well aware of and confident in my own abilities, having been around for a while.

Mate. If you want to last longer than 5 minutes here, you are going to have to tone down the rhetoric that goes similar to, "I have magical hearing and it's only your opinion that I don't".

Any minute now the mods are going to notice you and move half your posts to the "Are measurements everything or nothing" thread, and if you don't start learning lessons there, you won't last long (based on what happens to others who come here with boasts like yours).

This is a thread about dCS slapping a lawsuit threat on a reviewer. Any thoughts?

 

[Doodski]

@Newman. The way I read this is @Nuni stops at the RCA terminations. No voltage matters and what matters is the overall effect of the specific DAC based on a listening test. He's subjective and firmly entrenched. That's all. No biggy we can convert @Nuni.

 

[Nuni]

Mate. If you want to last longer than 5 minutes here, you are going to have to tone down the rhetoric that goes, "I have magical hearing and it's only your opinion that I don't".

Any minute now the mods are going to notice you and move half your posts to the "Are measurements everything or nothing" thread, and if you don't start learning lessons there, you won't last long (based on what happens to others who come here with boasts like yours).

This is a thread about dCS slapping a lawsuit threat on a reviewer. Any thoughts?

Again, why are you so aggressive. Are you saying that differing opinions are not countenanced here? By the way, please quote any "boast" I made and I will apologise. All I said was that I know what I like. If you cannot quote any post of mine where you claim I am boasting I would expect an apology from you. Ok?

 

[Newman]

Read with comprehension. And don't shoot the messenger for his tone. Deal with the topic instead.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

Sorry but I have no idea of the point you are trying to make. I have heard 100k speakers that I do not like, but I could also say what sounds better, a pair of Stenheim 05S E and a $50 dongle or a pair of Stenheim 05 SE and a Playback design dac or a Tambaqui. If you said the former I would seriously have to laugh at you.

Ok a 100k speaker that you like then. Which system sounds better ?

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Again, why are you so aggressive.

Some members get that way. It’s unfortunate and counter productive

Are you saying that differing opinions are not countenanced here?

It’s a science based forum. When personal opinions contradict established science history has shown us time and time again science is far far far more reliable

By the way, please quote any "boast" I made and I will apologise.

No need to apologize. But here was a boast

“Also I am well aware of and confident in my own abilities, having been around for a while.”

Just understand that in a science based forum personal confidence carries no weight.

 

[Jim Taylor]

Also I am well aware of and confident in my own abilities, having been around for a while.

Perhaps you could resist boredom long enough to view this. It's interesting.

Jim

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Read with comprehension. And don't shoot the messenger for his tone. Deal with the topic instead.

Yeah, I’m sure that post will work.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

@Newman. The way I read this is @Nuni stops at the RCA terminations. No voltage matters and what matters is the overall effect of the specific DAC based on a listening test. He's subjective and firmly entrenched. That's all. No biggy we can convert @Nuni.

The problem is they treat audio like an artistic canvas with one caveat. The more expensive the painting and the more famous the artist the more bragging rights. Perish the thought of owning a painting by some unknown arts student. That wouldn't cut it any more than owning a Topping DAC

 

[Doodski]

The problem is they treat audio like an artistic canvas with one caveat. The more expensive the painting and the more famous the artist the more bragging rights. Perish the thought of owning a painting by some unknown arts student. That wouldn't cut it any more than owning a Topping DAC

Yes, I have seen this stuff and witnessed the fanfare and cult status of the gear. If one more subjective chatterbox pops in it's just more chatter for me...LoL.. No biggie. He'll eventually need science and voila!

 

[Nuni]

Perish the thought of owning a painting by some unknown arts student.

I am sorry but that is hilarious. I buy paintings that I like regardless of who painted them. Yes some are expensive and others are by local artists or art students.
You are correct about one thing - I probably would never buy a Topping Dac as I like my products to last. (I also dislike the sound, but I cannot say that here, so I will not).

 

[amirm]

While you are correct in saying that there are more issues with power amps etc, there have also been issues with dacs. There are complaints even on this site - I suggest you look further.

You don't need to suggest anything to me. I know the situation and what you said about reliability of low cast DACs lacking has zero foundation. These companies sell tens of thousands of DACs. While an occasional bug or failure has been reported, nothing remotely backing your claim that they are a) unreliable and b) that is because they are low cost.

I put myself though college repairing hundreds of pieces of electronics from every major brand. Some I could fix without even diagnosing as the same parts would go bad in all of them. None of these products at the time (from Japan) were bargain or cheap products.

DACs today are produced using technologies for state of the art electronics. Parts are surface mounted and there is little in there that needs to be over designed to last longer. The companies that produce them have their product fully certified by safety and regulatory agencies -- something I can't always tell about high-end audio products. They use large scale, integrated ICs so they have fewer components than high-end DACs that resort to discrete technologies, FPGAs, etc.

Where they have failed is in power circuits and protection circuits. They have beefed these up and I don't hear much issues there even though failure in power products is a constant in audio.

Even if there were failures with DACs, they cost less than the shipping cost of expensive DACs! You can go online and have another one come to you next day and be back in business.

The days of guessing about reliability or performance of audio products based on cost, weight, etc. is long over.

 

[Nuni]

I am sorry but that is hilarious. I buy paintings that I like regardless of who painted them. Yes some are expensive and others are by local artists or art students.
You are correct about one thing - I probably would never buy a Topping Dac as I like my products to last. (I also dislike the sound, but I cannot say that here, so I will not).

Some Chinese dacs, amps and pre amps are outstanding though. As people interested in audio I am sure you have heard of AM, (Audio Music), which is now owned and run by Fang. He makes outstanding gear and though expensive, it is not outrageous.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

I am sorry but that is hilarious. I buy paintings that I like regardless of who painted them. Yes some are expensive and others are by local artists or art students.

I'm still waiting for your answer.

$300 Topping DAC + 100k speaker (of your choosing) vs $300 speaker + 100k DAC ! Which system sounds better ?? Honestly it is not a difficult or trick question

 

[Tranquility Bass]

You don't need to suggest anything to me. I know the situation and what you said about reliability of low cast DACs lacking has zero foundation. These companies sell tens of thousands of DACs. While an occasional bug or failure has been reported, nothing remotely backing your claim that they are a) unreliable and b) that is because they are low cost.

I put myself though college repairing hundreds of pieces of electronics from every major brand. Some I could fix without even diagnosing as the same parts would go bad in all of them. None of these products at the time (from Japan) were bargain or cheap products.

DACs today are produced using technologies for state of the art electronics. Parts are surface mounted and there is little in there that needs to be over designed to last longer. The companies that produce them have their product fully certified by safety and regulatory agencies -- something I can't always tell about high-end audio products. They use large scale, integrated ICs so they have fewer components than high-end DACs that resort to discrete technologies, FPGAs, etc.

Where they have failed is in power circuits and protection circuits. They have beefed these up and I don't hear much issues there even though failure in power products is a constant in audio.

Even if there were failures with DACs, they cost less than the shipping cost of expensive DACs! You can go online and have another one come to you next day and be back in business.

The days of guessing about reliability or performance of audio products based on cost, weight, etc. is long over.

Not only that you can afford to keep a spare DAC or two in case one fails because it is not going to break the bank. Usual culperate in a lot of gear these days is the failure of the plug pack and this can easily be replaced without discarding the rest of the electronics

 

[ROOSKIE]

Not necessarily, Jim. One of the better sounding turntables I have heard is the Kuzma Stabi S for example.In my opinion this outperforms tts often costing 3x to 4x as much. So why did I mention this? To show that there are bargains around if you search for them and know what you are doing. However, once again, this is my opinion.
By the way, I have looked at most of the videos here, (though not all the way through in all cases as they bore me to tears). Also I am well aware of and confident in my own abilities, having been around for a while.

Nuni, I think you might enjoy this article.

Audio Listening Test That Fooled the Hollywood Sapphire Group

Some of the most highly trained audiophiles in the industry were asked to do a blind “A-B” listening comparison test of two audio circuits. Were they able to hear a difference, or were they fooled?

www.audioholics.com

There are others good ones I could link but I think the one here about sums things up.

 

[Nuni]

I'm still waiting for your answer.

$300 Topping DAC + 100k speaker (of your choosing) vs $300 speaker + 100k DAC ! Which system sounds better ?? Honestly it is not a difficult or trick question

If I must, but just to humour you - probably the first however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac. You are also not taking the amp, pre amp, tt, cartridge, phono amp, room treatment or anything else into account, so your question is somewhat pointless.