dCS threatens with a 7-figure lawsuit over a review

[Nuni]

Not only that you can afford to keep a spare DAC or two in case one fails

Seriously?

 

[Newman]

If I must, but just to humour you - probably the first however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac. You are also not taking the amp, pre amp, tt, cartridge, phono amp, room treatment or anything else into account, so your question is somewhat pointless.

TT? Cartridge? It's a DAC question!

 

[Nuni]

TT? Cartridge? It's a DAC question!

True, ok add CD player streamer instead. That is what happens when I post without my morning coffee. The question is still pointless though.

 

[Doodski]

If I must, but just to humour you - probably the first however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac. You are also not taking the amp, pre amp, tt, cartridge, phono amp, room treatment or anything else into account, so your question is somewhat pointless.

We can and are fully capable of dissecting the operation of electronic devices. I think we can handle discussing one piece at a time.

 

[dzerig]

I am disappointed that the United States is moving in the direction of England's defamation laws, where truth is not necessarily a defense, and opinion is not necessarily protected.

 

[Newman]

[In] the United States ... opinion is not necessarily protected.

What is it in the US defamation law that doesn't protect opinion as well as other nations?

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I am disappointed that the United States is moving in the direction of England's defamation laws, where truth is not necessarily a defense, and opinion is not necessarily protected.

Truth is a defense when it is an appropriate defense. The cases where it is not a defense are very different than this sort of case

 

[Newman]

$300 Topping DAC + 100k speaker (of your choosing) vs $300 speaker + 100k DAC ! Which system sounds better ?? Honestly it is not a difficult or trick question

If I must, but just to humour you - probably the first however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac. You are also not taking the amp, pre amp, tt, cartridge, phono amp, room treatment or anything else into account, so your question is somewhat pointless.

True, ok add CD player streamer instead [replacing TT, cartridge, phono amp]. That is what happens when I post without my morning coffee. The question is still pointless though.

The point of the question, which is not pointless, is that spending big money on a DAC means less money in the budget for speakers. The big money on the DAC is wasted in terms of detectable sound quality (despite your science-free and science-defying opinion to the contrary), and if put into the loudspeaker budget could have made a big improvement to the detectable sound quality.

As for your prompt rejoinder, "however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac", show us your scientifically-valid evidence involving listening tests. You will be the first person ever to do so. And there is a good reason for that, a reason involving the large gap between the performance of DACs with a flat frequency response, and the limits of human hearing.

Your choice at this point, is to either stick to your line that you have magical hearing that no-one else does when listening to DACs in controlled conditions, or show some willingness to understand that you might have been wrong all this time.

 

[Doodski]

the first however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac.

Do you know how to read a test review and associated graphs and understand what they mean? I am asking because it will make a huge difference.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

If I must, but just to humour you - probably the first however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac. You are also not taking the amp, pre amp, tt, cartridge, phono amp, room treatment or anything else into account, so your question is somewhat pointless.

So you chose the first scenario because.....???

 

[Nuni]

The point of the question, which is not pointless, is that spending big money on a DAC means less money in the budget for speakers. The big money on the DAC is wasted in terms of detectable sound quality (despite your science-free and science-defying opinion to the contrary), and if put into the loudspeaker budget could have made a big improvement to the detectable sound quality.

As for your prompt rejoinder, "however the first choice would also sound far better with a better dac", show us your scientifically-valid evidence involving listening tests. You will be the first person ever to do so. And there is a good reason for that, a reason involving the large gap between the performance of DACs with a flat frequency response, and the limits of human hearing.

Your choice at this point, is to either stick to your line that you have magical hearing that no-one else does when listening to DACs in controlled conditions, or show some willingness to understand that you might have been wrong all this time.

I still do not understand the aggression. I buy what sounds good to me. So what? Why should this aggravate others? The only poster who ever mentioned magical hearing is you.
Also some people have enough to spend 100k on speakers as well as a reasonable amount on a good dac. (I have never heard a dac that costs 100k, 20k yes). The two are not naturally exclusive.

 

[Newman]

The only poster who ever mentioned magical hearing is you.

"Add a better DAC and it will sound far better" = same thing.

"I listened to well over 20 different dacs before I purchased my latest iteration and I purchased it because it sounded excellent to me - better than others I heard." = same thing.

 

[shuppatsu]

I see that a lot in the realm of adult toy collecting.

I definitely read this wrong the first time.

 

[shuppatsu]

Went back to this thread and suddenly there’s three pages of @Nuni against the ASR. Do we really have to beat every subjectivist over the head?

It’s like there’s a special corollary to Newton’s second law that any sufficiently long ASR thread tends towards “Are measurements everything or nothing?”

 

[Doodski]

Went back to this thread and suddenly there’s three pages of @Nuni against the ASR. Do we really have to beat every subjectivist over the head?

It’s like there’s a special corollary to Newton’s second law that any sufficiently long ASR thread tends towards “Are measurements everything or nothing?”

We're attempting to resurrect @Nuni from subjectivism.

 

[WalterW]

I probably would never buy a Topping Dac as I like my products to last. (I also dislike the sound, but I cannot say that here, so I will not).

Yes, true, these Topping DACs all sound so sterile and clinical, it's horrible. That is what I thought as well until I discovered that there is more than Celine Dione and then I discovered that it was the music I was listening to all along. Stupid me!

 

[Graham849]

Indulge me in a moment of brevity and levity.
Say out loud the vowels in "Celine Dion“

 

[Nuni]

Yes, true, these Topping DACs all sound so sterile and clinical, it's horrible. That is what I thought as well until I discovered that there is more than Celine Dione and then I discovered that it was the music I was listening to all along. Stupid me!

No. It was actually Karajan conducting Der Rosenkavalier with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf (Marschallin), Christa Ludwig (Octavian), that killed it. The voices of these divine singers were so shrill I could not stand it.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I still do not understand the aggression.

Nor do I. It doesn’t help

I buy what sounds good to me. So what? Why should this aggravate others?

It shouldn’t.

It becomes an issue when personal preferences are converted to assertions of fact that do not hold up when put to the test in controlled listening tests.

There is a community aspect to audio and I think most would agree that shared knowledge in that audiophile community is most helpful when it is most true and most counterproductive when it is false.

What we have here is a disagreement over what is objectively true not a disagreement over what you personally like.

The only poster who ever mentioned magical hearing is you.
Also some people have enough to spend 100k on speakers as well as a reasonable amount on a good dac. (I have never heard a dac that costs 100k, 20k yes). The two are not naturally exclusive.

We have a very different view on what constitutes a “good” DAC between you and the majority of regulars here at ASR.

And ultimately this will head towards whether or not you can reliably distinguish different DACs under controlled listening tests.

Just remember what I said earlier. Don’t make any bets. BUT please do put your beliefs to the test using controlled listening tests and see what happens.

 

[solderdude]

I'm still waiting for your answer.

$300 Topping DAC + 100k speaker (of your choosing) vs $300 speaker + 100k DAC ! Which system sounds better ?? Honestly it is not a difficult or trick question

But it is ... kind of.

I had a friend and he had some cheap speakers that sounded dull, boomy and muffled (well below 300 a pair) and swung by with some excellent speakers.
Installed it and thought he would love to hear 'better' sound quality.
Instead he vastly preferred the dull wooly and boomy sound over excellent sound.

So ... sounds better is subjective and depends on the person while sound fidelity is more objective. Turned out not everyone prefers the same thing.
The difference between 300 and 10k DAC is non existent but the speakers are not. Does not mean we all like/prefer the same sound.

O.K. the vast majority of people will prefer the 100k speaker..