dbx 223xs Crossover Review

[TabCam]

It is funny. I have the LD Systems 223 which look remarkable like the DBX 223 and it has a lot of noise, already at 0 dB levels. Units are far more efficient than speakers so it is much more hearable than Amir believes. I also have its 3 way big brother, the DBX 234 which is even a little noisier. Could be that it first separates lows and mids and then highs.

I think the standards for crossover units like these should be much higher to get even a lying down pink pater and recommendation, say a -60 dB noise floor.

 

[DanielT]

Hm..that was ominous. I'll plug mine in my LD Systems 223 in a few weeks when I get back home. Hope the noise level is not too bad. I was thinking of setting the crossover around 80-100 Hz.Sub-speaker.

Edit:
Maybe this one would be something? Apart from the small problem that in any case I don't really understand what the author is waffle about:

True passive crossover for high-end stereo system with 1 or 2 subwoofers ?

Hi. 6Moons Srajan is investigating this soon https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/icon-gradient-box/

audiosciencereview.com

 

[restorer-john]

I passed on a dbx 231s brand new in its box for AU$129 recently. Decided the pots were really cheap and with so little 'throw', it would have been a nightmare to adjust with any accuracy. The base specs suggested a reasonably quiet product, which is a change from EQs of old.

 

[Trdat]

Lets lay down the facts, I get why people don't use electronic active crossovers, DSP is just so much more advanced but I started out with an active crossover like the Marchand due to its simplicity, it was a learning progress. So I still think these have their place. I now use full digital DSP and have my Marchand lying on my bench as a reminder of my audio journey.

Great to see it measure well, it seems that it beats Marchands?

Now, I will be interested to know if the Chinese copies measure the same or are essentially the same?

 

[Sokel]

Lets lay down the facts, I get why people don't use electronic active crossovers, DSP is just so much more advanced but I started out with an active crossover like the Marchand due to its simplicity, it was a learning progress. So I still think these have their place. I now use full digital DSP and have my Marchand lying on my bench as a reminder of my audio journey.

Great to see it measure well, it seems that it beats Marchands?

Now, I will be interested to know if the Chinese copies measure the same or are essentially the same?

DSP products are fine as long as they can be used as standalone just before the amps or are one-in-all solutions,like the Okto.

Otherwise it gets complex with continuous D/A/D/A conversions and sometimes people with multiple sources including analog don't find it handy or safe enough.
Everything has its place.

 

[TabCam]

My conclusion is:

Thank God for digital XO

Edit: don't get me wrong I would rate this as great, but if I already have sota amps and dac I wouldn't want to spoil my perfectionism fun.

You win on adaptability and configurability with digital crossover but you loose as well on complexity needing multiiple or multi channel dacs and something I can only describe as wetness/liquidity of the sound.

 

[Ra1zel]

You win on adaptability and configurability with digital crossover but you loose as well on complexity needing multiiple or multi channel dacs and something I can only describe as wetness/liquidity of the sound.

Make sure to use reputable DSP and pro level converters like Universal or Merging, Thunderbolt and AES67 are much better than USB. I never experienced any liquidity, just increased accuracy and drive.

 

[jamescarter1982]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the dbx 223xs active analog balanced crossover. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $245.
View attachment 219467

I must say this is a nice and sturdy package for such a bargain price. Controls feel nice as well. Functionality though is confusing given the capability for mono vs stereo. Former provides 3-way crossover whereas the latter 2-way. There is some attempt at clarifying this with duplicate writings but it was hard. Same is reflected in the back:
View attachment 219468

If you have more patience than I , I am sure you can figure it out though.

Note: Harman owns dbx. Our company, Madrona Digital, buys some of their product lines but not these. Still, feel free to read any bias in my subjective remarks.

dbx 223xs Measurements
My focus here is level of transparency rather than quantifying filters. So I chose to use high-pass output for testing and set the filter very low so that it wouldn't impact most of the response. Here is our dashboard with input gains adjusted to get unity (which oddly was below 0):
View attachment 219469
This is very competent. Distortion at nearly -108 dB is very close to transparency. Our SINAD which is sum of noise+distortion drops down a bit due to those power supply spikes:
View attachment 219470

For 16 bit playback, you still have 6 dB of margin which is good.

Here is the frequency response as set up:
View attachment 219471

You can see the effect of the 40 Hz high pass. Response is extended past 20 kHz which is good.

Channel separation is well above average:
View attachment 219472

Baseline noise is rather high as displayed in IMD vs level measurement:
View attachment 219473

The high-pass filter is impacting this a bit.

We see a typical rise in distortion with frequency although it is mild:
View attachment 219474

Conclusions
Somehow I expected to see high levels of noise and distortion but did not find much. No, this is not state of the art but clears the bar of 16 bit performance well. If you are using ultra sensitive tweeters and such, you may hear some added hiss but otherwise it should be fine.

While a digital crossover is more perfect, you don't get the instant variability to adjust things as you have here.

I am going to recommend the dbx 223xs. It is a bargain given its build and performance.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

could devices like this be somehow powered using a different type of power supply like a smps would this remove any of the ps noise you mentioned in your review ?

 

[jamescarter1982]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the dbx 223xs active analog balanced crossover. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $245.
View attachment 219467

I must say this is a nice and sturdy package for such a bargain price. Controls feel nice as well. Functionality though is confusing given the capability for mono vs stereo. Former provides 3-way crossover whereas the latter 2-way. There is some attempt at clarifying this with duplicate writings but it was hard. Same is reflected in the back:
View attachment 219468

If you have more patience than I , I am sure you can figure it out though.

Note: Harman owns dbx. Our company, Madrona Digital, buys some of their product lines but not these. Still, feel free to read any bias in my subjective remarks.

dbx 223xs Measurements
My focus here is level of transparency rather than quantifying filters. So I chose to use high-pass output for testing and set the filter very low so that it wouldn't impact most of the response. Here is our dashboard with input gains adjusted to get unity (which oddly was below 0):
View attachment 219469
This is very competent. Distortion at nearly -108 dB is very close to transparency. Our SINAD which is sum of noise+distortion drops down a bit due to those power supply spikes:
View attachment 219470

For 16 bit playback, you still have 6 dB of margin which is good.

Here is the frequency response as set up:
View attachment 219471

You can see the effect of the 40 Hz high pass. Response is extended past 20 kHz which is good.

Channel separation is well above average:
View attachment 219472

Baseline noise is rather high as displayed in IMD vs level measurement:
View attachment 219473

The high-pass filter is impacting this a bit.

We see a typical rise in distortion with frequency although it is mild:
View attachment 219474

Conclusions
Somehow I expected to see high levels of noise and distortion but did not find much. No, this is not state of the art but clears the bar of 16 bit performance well. If you are using ultra sensitive tweeters and such, you may hear some added hiss but otherwise it should be fine.

While a digital crossover is more perfect, you don't get the instant variability to adjust things as you have here.

I am going to recommend the dbx 223xs. It is a bargain given its build and performance.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

the high pass at 40hz does 40hz refer to the point at which the respons drops 3db or the point at which the frequency starts reducing. would it be easy to blend a subwoofer in with this unit do you think

 

[DonH56]

could devices like this be somehow powered using a different type of power supply like a smps would this remove any of the ps noise you mentioned in your review ?

The power supply is inside the box so replacing it (with anything) means tearing the box apart. A DIY project.

the high pass at 40hz does 40hz refer to the point at which the respons drops 3db or the point at which the frequency starts reducing. would it be easy to blend a subwoofer in with this unit do you think

Filters are normally specified at the -3 dB point (not always, but unless otherwise stated that is a pretty safe assumption).

You can use this as a subwoofer crossover (I did) but note it is a basic, conventional analog filter. You will need to provide some means of adjusting the delay (or phase at the crossover frequency) for proper integration. Some subs (like my Rythmiks) have a continuous delay/phase adjustment, you can use your AVR/AVP's room correction program (or just delay adjustment), you could use a computer program if you stream from your PC, or use an external device like an Antimode or miniDSP.

 

[jamescarter1982]

The power supply is inside the box so replacing it (with anything) means tearing the box apart. A DIY project.

Filters are normally specified at the -3 dB point (not always, but unless otherwise stated that is a pretty safe assumption).

You can use this as a subwoofer crossover (I did) but note it is a basic, conventional analog filter. You will need to provide some means of adjusting the delay (or phase at the crossover frequency) for proper integration. Some subs (like my Rythmiks) have a continuous delay/phase adjustment, you can use your AVR/AVP's room correction program (or just delay adjustment), you could use a computer program if you stream from your PC,

The power supply is inside the box so replacing it (with anything) means tearing the box apart. A DIY project.

Filters are normally specified at the -3 dB point (not always, but unless otherwise stated that is a pretty safe assumption).

You can use this as a subwoofer crossover (I did) but note it is a basic, conventional analog filter. You will need to provide some means of adjusting the delay (or phase at the crossover frequency) for proper integration. Some subs (like my Rythmiks) have a continuous delay/phase adjustment, you can use your AVR/AVP's room correction program (or just delay adjustment), you could use a computer program if you stream from your PC, or use an external device like an Antimode or miniDSP.

thamkyou very much for your answer

 

[juliangst]

Is noise a big problem with this one or the LD systems crossover?
I just need a simple crossover between my speakers and sub and this might save me a lot of money compared to digital solutions like the MOTU UL mk5 or topping DM7

 

[DanielT]

Is noise a big problem with this one or the LD systems crossover?
I just need a simple crossover between my speakers and sub and this might save me a lot of money compared to digital solutions like the MOTU UL mk5 or topping DM7

No problems, what so ever. No audible noise. Maybe if you mix balanced with unbalanced, inputs and outputs that is, but apart from that, I haven't experienced any audible problems, noise that is. And then I've even driven a combination of unbalanced and balanced. But it can mostly be down to luck, no noise heard then that is. But drive, connect balanced all the way if you can.

See attached picture, my test rig, #18:

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/car-cruising.35779/

This one in my dig:

LD Systems X 223

Active Crossover Stereo 2-way/Mono 3-way, Frequency range: 20 - 20,000 Hz, Dynamics: 106 dB, 2x High gain, 2x High pass: 40 Hz, 2x Input gain, 2x Low gain, 2x Switch Freq. x1 / x10, 2x X-Over Freq. Low/High, 2x X-Over Low/Mid, 4x Inv. Switch, LF...

www.thomann.de

LD Systems X 223 LDX223

The LD Systems X223 is a stereo 2 way / mono 3 way crossover in standard 19"/1U rack format. Its rugged construction, high quality and robust knobs as well as the integrated power unit are rarities in this price range. It provides a...

www.adamhall.com

The same active crossover, more or less, than the one in this thread. Yes, it works flawlessly, but as I said, balanced cables, to counteract any noise that CAN occur (not sure that this is the case) but also because you want to be able to throw the ugly active crossover into a closet, or in another room so you don't have to see the shit. Reasonably long cables may then be needed and then balanced cables may make sense.

 

[DonH56]

Is noise a big problem with this one or the LD systems crossover?
I just need a simple crossover between my speakers and sub and this might save me a lot of money compared to digital solutions like the MOTU UL mk5 or topping DM7

I have no experience with the LD unit. I have used the dbx unit in many systems over the years and noise was not a problem for me. None of them used highly-sensitive speakers like compression drivers and horns, however. The measurements show the noise floor near the limits of audibility albeit with some power supply noise (still at a pretty low level) so I doubt it would be a problem.

Note using an analog crossover means you do need some way to align the phase (or time-align) the sub(s) and main speakers to prevent frequency response issues around the crossover region. Your AVR/AVP should handle that, or the sub may have delay or phase control (my Rythmiks do), or you may have to solve it another way (e.g. physical placement or some sort of external delay unit, digital or analog).

HTH - Don

 

[juliangst]

No problems, what so ever. No audible noise. Maybe if you mix balanced with unbalanced, inputs and outputs that is, but apart from that, I haven't experienced any audible problems whatsoever, noise. And then I've even driven a combination of unbalanced and balanced. But it can mostly be down to luck, no noise heard then that is. But drive, connect balanced if you can.

See attached picture, my test rig, #18:

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/car-cruising.35779/

This one in my dig:

LD Systems X 223

Active Crossover Stereo 2-way/Mono 3-way, Frequency range: 20 - 20,000 Hz, Dynamics: 106 dB, 2x High gain, 2x High pass: 40 Hz, 2x Input gain, 2x Low gain, 2x Switch Freq. x1 / x10, 2x X-Over Freq. Low/High, 2x X-Over Low/Mid, 4x Inv. Switch, LF...

www.thomann.de

LD Systems X 223 LDX223

The LD Systems X223 is a stereo 2 way / mono 3 way crossover in standard 19"/1U rack format. Its rugged construction, high quality and robust knobs as well as the integrated power unit are rarities in this price range. It provides a...

www.adamhall.com

The same active crossover, more or less, than the one in this thread. Yes, it works flawlessly, but as I said, balanced cables, to counteract any noise that CAN occur (not sure that this is the case) but also because you want to be able to throw the ugly active crossover into a closet, or in another room so you don't have to see the shit. Reasonably long cables may then be needed and then balanced cables may make sense.

Thanks for the quick answer!
I think I might go with this crossover before spending 500+€ on a Multichannel dac.
Subs mostly have RCA only as an input so I‘d have to use a XLR to RCA for the sub.

If noise becomes an issues I could just use the crossover as a high pass for the speakers and connect the sub to the RCA out of my DAC.

 

[juliangst]

I have no experience with the LD unit. I have used the dbx unit in many systems over the years and noise was not a problem for me. None of them used highly-sensitive speakers like compression drivers and horns, however. The measurements show the noise floor near the limits of audibility albeit with some power supply noise (still at a pretty low level) so I doubt it would be a problem.

Note using an analog crossover means you do need some way to align the phase (or time-align) the sub(s) and main speakers to prevent frequency response issues around the crossover region. Your AVR/AVP should handle that, or the sub may have delay or phase control (my Rythmiks do), or you may have to solve it another way (e.g. physical placement or some sort of external delay unit, digital or analog).

HTH - Don

I will most likely just use this crossover between my LS50 and sub and correct the whole thing with REW+RePhase or eventually spend the 350€ on Dirac

 

[DonH56]

I will most likely just use this crossover between my LS50 and sub and correct the whole thing with REW+RePhase or eventually spend the 350€ on Dirac

I'd guess it will work fine for that. You can buy from a place with a return policy in case it doesn't work out. I have used mine with a similar setup and don't recall excess hiss but it was some time ago. I got mine from Sweetwater Sound and they have a no hassle 30-day return policy.

 

[DanielT]

Thanks for the quick answer!
I think I might go with this crossover before spending 500+€ on a Multichannel dac.
Subs mostly have RCA only as an input so I‘d have to use a XLR to RCA for the sub.

If noise becomes an issues I could just use the crossover as a high pass for the speakers and connect the sub to the RCA out of my DAC.

Being able to set gain on input, output on the two different channels in different ways is actually really handy, see attached pictures.

Another thing. Balance between channels? Nemas problemas between , ex 70-140 Hz there are 7 fixed modes. But note that it applies to:

LD Systems X 223 LDX223

The LD Systems X223 is a stereo 2 way / mono 3 way crossover in standard 19"/1U rack format. Its rugged construction, high quality and robust knobs as well as the integrated power unit are rarities in this price range. It provides a...

www.adamhall.com

I don't know how it is with that and the dbx 223xsb.

What DonH56 talks about '" time-align," you can't solve that with these active crossovers. For that buy miniDSP for example.

Edit:
...... for example:

thomann t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the thomann t.racks DSP four by four matrix DSP. It was kindly purchased new by a member and costs just US $99. I really like the form factor here and inclusion of brackets for mounting in cars and such. Inclusion of balanced I/O is much...

audiosciencereview.com

By the way, lots of stuff in the chain, when does distortion become a problem?

How do you sum up distortion in the sound chain?

That's the question. Anyone have the answer? It's not as simple as just a plus, is it? For example 0,03% + 0,3% = 0,33%? Edit: After a bit of googling that it seems to be about some kind of Root Mean Square calculation ..Or...

audiosciencereview.com

When it becomes audible to you? I do not know.

Edit:
My little experiments. Bass eats, I mean really EATS/requires lots of amp power. This is not new revolutionary knowledge but to test it yourself and really see, hear that it is the case is fascinating.
(with that is following how little power the rest needs, just as fascinating)

 

[existentialtrav]

For anyone reading thread and considering buying - don't. These seem to be designed to fail after 1 year of use. Happened to me and a lot of the folks who have lower star Amazon reviews.

 

[restorer-john]

For anyone reading thread and considering buying - don't. These seem to be designed to fail after 1 year of use. Happened to me and a lot of the folks who have lower star Amazon reviews.

I blame Harman, not the Chinese manufacturers.

They are screwing down the manufacturers to the point they can't make reliable, well made product.

dbx gear made in the US in the 70s is STILL working perfectly. I know, I have plenty of pieces. I looked at a dbx (by Harman) EQ the other day. It was utter junk.