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David Chesky on Streaming Convenience vs Sound Quality

We all have our predetermined level of intelligence and understanding. I think some of the discussion here has been over what you can understand, no offense. I wish I could help.
You have no concept of this man's technical background. Then again, you are new 'round these parts.
 
We know dark matter exists but we can’t explain or measure it satisfactorily.
Actually we don't. It is a widely accepted hypothesis to explain other stuff we do see (like rate of expansion of the universe). But since we've never been able to detect it we can't actually know that it exists.

The fact that we cannot explain something or measure it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
What if we can explain it, and measure it, and know that it is not something another person is claiming it is?
 
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The fact that we cannot explain something or measure it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Like believing in every religion? Faith based audio tech does seem to have a foothold.
 
He is referred to as Dr. David Chesky without reference on half a dozen web sites. None of his official biographies mention anything about a doctorate nor does he ever refer to himself as a doctor. He has, however, released several albums under the moniker Dr. Chesky. Perhaps he's a doctor like Dr. Demento is a doctor. One would have to ask him...

Martin
Dr. Demento is close to being a doctor - he's got a master's in ethnomusicology.
My ex- Shira Cion - has a doctorate in ethnomusicology. I don't recall anyone calling her "doctor".

But these particular university level degrees have nothing to do with knowledge of electrical engineering or recording.

It appears that Mr. Chesky does not have a university background in recording or engineering. As regards recording that is just fine, many excellent and well-known recording "engineers" have no university-based training in recording or electronics.

But, as is said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
 
I do not know what protocol each service uses. E.g. this page https://www.muvi.com/blogs/what-is-audio-streaming/ says:

Yes, it would make sense for musical services like the mentioned Spotify and Pandora to use a protocol where the pace is controlled by the client (like HTTP download), but I do not know what they actually use. Please do you have any more specific info?

Internet radios use RTP, but that's the type of "push" streaming I was talking about.

Internet protocols are always stacked, so it's never just one. But the main ones are DASH (at least for the GOOG ecosystem) over HTTP over TCP/IP or QUIC (which is what u could call a lightweight TCP implementation over UDP). And there's some other stuff you bake in.

In my opinion, there's zero need to maintaining any timing reference when you stream music unless you want to synchronize players from the source. The music is a file. Just transfer it over and let the recipient play it any way they want. If you check your network when you are streaming music, there's absolutely no effort made to stream at a constant rate - something like TCP is pretty good at discovering how fast it can transfer files, it just adjusts window size. And music is not a bandwidth intensive service these days, a lot of the stuff is probably there due to resource limitations in prior times.

I also bet a lot of stuff is there for DRM reasons rather than any performance reasons, or to save $ in the implementation.

In general, dumping a music file to the destination is very different from, say, a voice conversation (which in earlier days required attention to timing and jitter even with a lot of compression to work well), or stuff like performing remote brain surgery or guiding a missile. With music, just transfer the file, easy... and make it hard to record the stream etc...
 
So does that mean YOU know that it doesn’t exist?
The reductionism to individual knowledge doesn't work - whether a scientific theory bombs or triumphs as a foundation to a working model is not dependent on every human "knowing". The engine in your car runs whether you understand the principles of combustion engines or not. And even a used car salesman is not going to try to convince you there are things we don't know about the dynamics of a vehicle on the road. Hence, we don't need to unravel the ultimate secrets of the universe to play very high quality audio -probably beyond our hearing ability already- at home. :)
 
The reductionism to individual knowledge doesn't work - whether a scientific theory bombs or triumphs as a foundation to a working model is not dependent on every human "knowing". The engine in your car runs whether you understand the principles of combustion engines or not. And even a used car salesman is not going to try to convince you there are things we don't know about the dynamics of a vehicle on the road. Hence, we don't need to unravel the ultimate secrets of the universe to play very high quality audio -probably beyond our hearing ability already- at home. :)
Thank you. I couldn’t have said it more elegantly.
 
Do you think God exists?
got here somehow. Stop trolling and get back on topic. I was making fun of how gullible some audio buyers are with the "faith based" joke and have zero animus against any true believer in any god.
 
"With over 50 years as a pianist, composer, orchestrator, and producer of nearly a thousand albums, I trust my musical memory, which I believe extends to tonality as well"

Oh lord. actually, as you get older you should trust less not only your hearing, but also your memory, The decline of these functions is a fact of life, backed by extensive medical research. The statement can only falls on delusion thinking or scam attempt.
My first thought, at age 68, and I am not sure how old David is (but at least my age), is that his hearing is no longer sufficient for critical listening as it once was. I went to the audiologist this year and found my hearing slopes down rapidly after 4K. $3,000 later on high tech hearing aids with computer adjusted EQ up to 8K, and I can hear a chunk of the world I was missing before.

For the past 10 years I have perceived that listening to music, while pleasurable, was not as defining and spatially mesmerizing as it once was. I actually purchased a headphone amp/dac and ear buds and rediscovered some of the things I was missing.

I recently picked up a WiiM Ultra, and with its room correction and EQ I am finding listening more pleasurable than in recent years.

I won't even get into the tinnitus aspect of things.

One may age gracefully and acquire wisdom, but for almost everyone your hearing will deteriorate, if not substantially. His comments are kind of like a senior citizen evaluating the resolution of 65-inch flat screen TVs without wearing glasses. Good luck.

I would prefer he sit down and in a double-blind test try and pick which track is which. If he can ace that, then I might consider believe him. Comparing FM multiplex to lossless digital streaming is not an accurate or appropriate comparison, nor is it if even if he is talking about digital FM.

Booo.
 
got here somehow. Stop trolling and get back on topic. I was making fun of how gullible some audio buyers are with the "faith based" joke and have zero animus against any true believer in any god.
You are the one who for some reason inserted religion into it. Why am I the one trolling? Do you even know what the topic is?
 
My first thought, at age 68, and I am not sure how old David is (but at least my age), is that his hearing is no longer sufficient for critical listening as it once was. I went to the audiologist this year and found my hearing slopes down rapidly after 4K. $3,000 later on high tech hearing aids with computer adjusted EQ up to 8K, and I can hear a chunk of the world I was missing before.

For the past 10 years I have perceived that listening to music, while pleasurable, was not as defining and spatially mesmerizing as it once was. I actually purchased a headphone amp/dac and ear buds and rediscovered some of the things I was missing.

I recently picked up a WiiM Ultra, and with its room correction and EQ I am finding listening more pleasurable than in recent years.

I won't even get into the tinnitus aspect of things.

One may age gracefully and acquire wisdom, but for almost everyone your hearing will deteriorate, if not substantially. His comments are kind of like a senior citizen evaluating the resolution of 65-inch flat screen TVs without wearing glasses. Good luck.

I would prefer he sit down and in a double-blind test try and pick which track is which. If he can ace that, then I might consider believe him. Comparing FM multiplex to lossless digital streaming is not an accurate or appropriate comparison, nor is it if even if he is talking about digital FM.

Booo.
I agree with you 100%. I am glad I won’t be the one telling him: David, your hearing is not what it once was. I am about your age and I can attest that getting old sucks
 
got here somehow. Stop trolling and get back on topic. I was making fun of how gullible some audio buyers are with the "faith based" joke and have zero animus against any true believer in any god.
Next time you want to refer to gullibility, try talking about use car salesmanship or snake oil. Religious people are not necessarily gullible.
 
Religious people are not necessarily gullible.
I am biting my tongue so hard that I think I have drawn blood.

The MODs asked you to please stop... :facepalm:
 
In science there is no proof and no "truth" either, theories are elaborate and structured ensembles of claims supported by experimental evidence and logic (together with that razor of old Ockham). The truly good theories have a LOT of evidence and experiments as support.

This is key. In science a 'theory' has the highest level of confirmation. Or as wikipedia quotes,
"most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge"

This is very different from the vernacular use of 'theory', which is more akin to a hypothesis or just a speculation

By the way, Dr. Toole makes the same quote said differently in his book. I think it applies so well to what I read on hifi fora. Treating people's experiences as data points is a more scientific way of looking at things, in my opinion.
What's being contested is his *explanation* for his experiential 'data point'. And that's fair game. As I'm sure Dr. Toole would agree.

Secondarily, there is the question of why he would promote a dubious explanation.
 
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