Crown XLi 800 Power Amplifier Review

[raif71]

I'm not a big fan of Zeos' reviews, but I have an XLS1502 (in my garage system) and it's really pretty decent.

That amp is a good case study about how some of these benchmark numbers translate to real-world performance. Any listening environment is going to have a noise floor of 30-40dB anyway, so amps like the XLS1502 (75dB SINAD as measured by Amir) are not necessarily the end of the world.

I've had a lot of enjoyable hours listening to that amp alone and with friends. Plenty of detail, not harsh, etc. Granted, it's just my "garage" system and not in my main rig. But that combo pulls off some tricks my "nicer" systems can't.

I see, so the xls1502 has been measured by Amir. Thanks for the info

 

[GrimSurfer]

I see, so the xls1502 has been measured by Amir. Thanks for the info

And this is what @amirm said:

"Can it be used for hi-fi use? Sure but it will severely limit both the resolution and potentially bandwidth of upstream sources. Its best use would be as a subwoofer amplifier."

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Whether this is class AB or class B, you need to read some books. Definition is the percentage of period of conduction. So basically this is either under biased class B or class C. I would say this is under biased class B. And the class AB people normally think of is probably critically biased class B. Class AB has a region where both upper and lower device conduct.

I'm not positive what a "critically biased Class B" amplifier is.
In my view, if any device is in cutoff for any part of normal operation, then you have a Class-B amplifier.
If none of the devices are allowed into cutoff then you have a Class-AB amplifier.

Dave.

 

[raif71]

And this is what @amirm said:

"Can it be used for hi-fi use? Sure but it will severely limit both the resolution and potentially bandwidth of upstream sources. Its best use would be as a subwoofer amplifier."

noted

 

[confucius_zero]

NOTE: my company (Madrona Digital) is a dealer for Harman and sells a lot of Crown amplifiers.

As it is, I can't recommend the XLi 800.

True dedication to the mission. <3

 

[JohnBooty]

And this is what @amirm said:

"Can it be used for hi-fi use? Sure but it will severely limit both the resolution and potentially bandwidth of upstream sources. Its best use would be as a subwoofer amplifier."

Yes.

Regarding bandwidth, Amir found that there's a hard cutoff at 24khz. While very few people can hear above 20khz, the bats and dogs living in your neighborhood may be disappointed and demand that you purchase a more suitably audiophile solution.

The SINAD of the XLS 1502 is a little bit more relevant. Given the minimum noise floor in nearly any situation (~30-40dB) and the safe limits of human exposure to noise (100dB is really pushing it both in terms of our eardrums and our neighbors) I personally find that not to be a limiting factor. For headphones, maybe, but not speakers.

Like everybody else on this forum I too am attracted by the pursuit of engineering excellence and hope to own an amp from Neurochrome or Benchmark or the like someday when my debts have been whittled away. And I do own better amps than the XLS1502 already. =)

 

[SmackDaddies]

Will he? The crown that he reviewed with adulation is the xls1502, not this model (at least the one I saw)

He ran a lot of equipment of XLS models at RAMF this year and the sound impressed a lot of people, including those not Zeos fan boi's

 

[Ron Texas]

The manufacturers make this clear in the literature across the entire product range. Their specs reflect it. Your results show it.

Too bad we have so many militantly stupid audiophiles claiming these "pro" things are great for critical listening at home. They're not.

Just another audio myth, shattered by the cold truth.

Actually, the XLS 1502 is great for listening at home. It also has a built in DSP which makes it a lot easier to add a sub to bookshelf speakers. Tons of folks love them:

https://www.amazon.com/Crown-XLS1502-Two-channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B011X2HTZC

Sorry if I am militantly stupid. Remember listening environments have relatively high noise floors and even the best speakers have .1% distortion. This makes the quest for extremely quiet amps a bit aimless unless they have something else to offer like low cost per watt. I do agree the amp tested here does not cut it for home use.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Actually, the XLS 1502 is great for listening at home. It also has a built in DSP which makes it a lot easier to add a sub to bookshelf speakers. Tons of folks love them:

https://www.amazon.com/Crown-XLS1502-Two-channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B011X2HTZC

Sorry if I am militantly stupid. Remember listening environments have relatively high noise floors and even the best speakers have .1% distortion. This makes the quest for extremely quiet amps a bit aimless unless they have something else to offer like low cost per watt.

At least you're making an informed purchase. It can make sense for a sub in a hifi system.

The quest for an extremely quiet amp isn't aimless. Quiet is the aim.

 

[Ron Texas]

At least you're making an informed purchase. It can make sense for a sub in a hifi system.

The quest for an extremely quiet amp isn't aimless. Quiet is the aim.

You can spend your money any way you like, but don't take pot shots at groups people who don't see it your way.

 

[GrimSurfer]

You can spend your money any way you like, but don't take pot shots at groups people who don't see it your way.

I'm not taking a pot shot. Amir made the same point. The issue is how you square the test results with high fidelity.

You're entitled to your opinion... and it's your money.

 

[SmackDaddies]

At least you're making an informed purchase. It can make sense for a sub in a hifi system.

The quest for an extremely quiet amp isn't aimless. Quiet is the aim.

To me this is the whole "are we testing for things we cant hear"? question. If you a/b an amp and cannot hear the difference, does the measurable difference matter? If John Booty and JoeNTell tell me it sounds good, well, it probably sounds good.

 

[GrimSurfer]

To me this is the whole "are we testing for things we cant hear"? question. If you a/b an amp and cannot hear the difference, does the measurable difference matter? If John Booty and JoeNTell tell me it sounds good, well, it probably sounds good.

The testing Amir does seeks to determine audibility, conformance to spec, and objective measures of performance (which is indicative of good design).

Certain SNRs and non-linearities should trump anything subjective.

 

[Ron Texas]

I'm not taking a pot shot. Amir made the same point. The issue is how you square the test results with high fidelity.

You're entitled to your opinion... and it's your money.

Amir didn't call anyone militantly stupid. You should know better. There is another member of this forum who is one of the most informed and helpful people here. He also uses an XLS 1502 for home hi-fi.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Amir didn't call anyone militantly stupid. You should know better. There is another member of this forum who is one of the most informed and helpful ones here. He also uses an XLS 1502 for home hi-fi.

I don't care what you, Amir or anyone else uses or misuses. And I'm not trying to hurt your feelings by saying that a public address amp that measures poorly isnt a wise choice for home audio.

I'm saying that anyone who tries to talk around the issue of designed purpose or objectively poor performance isn't thinking very clearly (except, perhaps, as an amp for a sub etc)... or is taking a bad idea and following it against all logic. It is the latter that qualifies as militant stupidity -- obstinacy against evidence.

So if you, Amir or anyone else is using a PA amp to drive a sub then there is some logic being applied. Otherwise, you can draw your own conclusions on what I'm saying. Hopefully a conclusion that makes you feel that your money has been well spent.

 

[Ron Texas]

I don't care what you, Amir or anyone else uses or misuses. And I'm not trying to hurt your feelings by saying that a public address amp that measures poorly is a wise choice for home audio.

So you think calling people militantly stupid isn't for the purpose of hurting their feelings. Do you think you are helping them? You sure don't care what anyone else thinks or feels if you insist on displaying a total lack of empathy for the other members of this form.

 

[GrimSurfer]

So you think calling people militantly stupid isn't for the purpose of hurting their feelings. Do you think you are helping them? You sure don't care what anyone else thinks or feels if you insist on displaying a total lack of empathy for the other members of this form.

I didn't call you militantly stupid, Ron. I made a general point on a common misuse of public address amps... and the people who later go on to defend their use against all logic.

So tell me, on what logical basis did you buy/operate your PA amp?

 

[RichB]

Folks still need to research the product features that include noise (use of fans), trigger capability, power requirements, and FAF (Family Approval Factor). After all requirements are met, performance measurements provided here are the final gate (or not).

- Rich

 

[Ron Texas]

I didn't call you militantly stupid, Ron. I made a general point on a common misuse of public address amps... and the people who later go on to defend their use against all logic.

So tell me, on what logical basis did you buy/operate your PA amp?

Low price, high power, built in DSP and militant stupidity, of course. I could take it back to Guitar Center after 45 days and found it sounded good enough that there was no need to do that. Not too many around here will believe, this but an SINAD of 75db is good enough.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Folks still need to research the product features that include noise (use of fans), trigger capability, power requirements, and FAF (Family Approval Factor). After all requirements are met, performance measurements provided here are the final gate (or not).

- Rich

I can live with this.

It is interesting that the same people who rationalize poor PA specs sharply disapprove of including fan noise in SNR. Noise is noise, right? Why should fan noise be excluded?